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Possible Changes to EdinPhoto web site |
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1. Question On December 1, 2013, I asked if I should: - add a discussion forum to the EdinPhoto web site, and - add links to links to Twitter and Facebook. |
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2. Replies Thank you to all for your prompt, encouraging and helpful replies. I appreciate your comments and the trouble you have gone to to give me your views and suggestions. |
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Conclusions There has been an overwhelming view (95.2%) that the site is fine as it is. So, these are the conclusions that I've reached: (a) I'll not make any changes to its design of the site. In particular, I'll not add a forum to the site, that would allow people to add comments below the photos on the site. (b) I've had a Twitter account for a while but have hardly used it. I'll add a few comments on my Twitter account. to let people know about some of the updates that I make to the EdinPhoto site. This should not affect, in any way, the way that you and others use the EdinPhoto web site. (c) I may, in the future, add a link back from the EdinPhoto web site to my Twitter account. However, before doing that, I'll speak to a few others who have added Twitter links to their web sites and see what their experience has been and what their advice is. (d) I'll not add any links from the EdinPhoto web site to Facebook. I want to do what I feel is best for the EdinPhoto web site and its users, rather than do anything that might end up being inappropriate for the site, merely in an attempt to improve the site's Google ranking. |
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4. Further details Please scroll down this page to read my full question and the replies that I received. |
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Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 3, 2013 |
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Question |
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This is a subject that I've considered occasionally, but not taken any action on so far. I'd welcome any response that you'd like to send to me. Visitors and Pages Viewed The EdinPhoto web site is now over ten years old. The number of visitors to the site and the number of pages viewed has been increasing steadily over the years, but over the past couple of months these numbers have fallen. In November the site had abut 148,000 visitors who viewed about 587,000 pages. I'll see what happens over the next couple of months. Re-design or Not? I prefer to spend my time updating the content of the web site and responding to emails, rather than making any technical changes to the web site design, but if viewing figures continue to fall, I may need to think again and do something to bring the site more up to date and more into line with newer sites that are being developed now? e.g. - by making it more suitable for viewing by tablets and mobile phones OR - by adding a discussion forum or links to Twitter and/or Facebook. I believe that such changes might result in a higher Google ranking for the site and bring in more visitors, but I'm not desperate for more visitors because: - the site is entirely non-commercial, so I don't have any sales that I'm trying to increase. - the site is already generating email correspondence for me at a rate that's faster than I've been able to cope with in recent months. I don't know how much work such changes might entail. Perhaps I'll not make any any changes to the site design in the near future. If you have any comments that you'd like to share with me at this stage, please email me. Thank you. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: 11pm. December 1, 2013 |
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Replies |
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Thank you
Almost all the replies that I've received to date (2 days
after posting my question) have come from people who appear to be
satisfied with the site as it is now.
I'll try to ensure that if I do make
any changes to the design of the site, they will be able to continue to use it
in the way that they have become accustomed to using it.
Summary of Replies
Here is a brief summary of the replies
that I've received to date. Please scroll down this page or click on one
of the links below to read the full message.
S = Keep the web site simple. B = Add a blog, e.g. to allow comments to be posted below photos. |
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Edinburgh |
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Edinburgh |
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New Jersey, USA |
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Midlothian, Scotland |
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Glasgow, Scotland |
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Nottinghamshire, England |
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Buckinghamshire, England |
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London, England |
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British Columbia, Canada |
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Edinburgh |
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Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 3, 2013 |
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Reply 1. from Tony (Scotty) Henderson Canada |
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"Peter, Please leave the site a it is. I'm sure you must be kept pretty busy updating it! It is number one in my book! I found it a few years ago and check it every day! It brings back a lot of info on Edinburgh in the past! I have been in contact with quite a few people through your website. Many thanks from an old 80-year-old from Lower View Craig Row, Dumbiedykes, then high up in a 'Single End' at St James Square. Many thanks Peter if you do change it I will still do my daily check." Scotty Henderson, Canada (since 1957): December 2, 2013 (2 emails) |
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Hi Scotty Thanks for your appreciative comments. I'll try to ensure that whatever I do, you will still be able to use the web site in the way that you have become used to using it. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 2, 2013 |
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Reply 2. from Robert Laird Longstone, Edinburgh |
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"Morning Peter, I read your piece regarding possible changes to the site. Frankly I find it suits me fine. It's simple to navigate through and you provide a way for contributors to make contact with each other - something that brings a lot of happiness I’m sure. I am mainly interested in the old photographs of the city and the personal memories that accompany them. There's a good book to be compiled from those resources! So I’m quite happy with how it is, and grateful for the hours of work that go into keeping it vibrant." Robert Laird, Longstone, Edinburgh: December 2, 2013 |
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Hi Robert Thanks for your appreciative comments. I'll try to ensure that whatever I do, you will still be able to use the web site in the way that you have become used to using it. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 2, 2013 |
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Reply 3. from Liz Miller Jersey, Channel Islands |
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"Hi Peter, I read the note on your page. A suggestion I would make is the possibility of being able to post comments or questions below each photograph, e.g. as in Facebook. That would certainly cut down on your e-mails, and I’m sure you would find it less time-consuming to read through remarks posted. Also, I very often would add a comment, but don’t want to add to your e-mails, so I forget it! I’m not a ‘technophobe’ so I have no idea if that is possible on the present site or not." Liz Miller, Jersey, Channel Islands: December 2, 2013 |
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Hi Liz Posting Comments below Photos on EdinPhoto web site Thanks for your comments. That's the sort of suggestion that I had been wondering about. At the moment, I have mixed feelings about it. It is certainly very easy for users to post comments below photos on Facebook. On the downside, I have found that comments posted on Facebook sometimes appear to me to be fairly superficial, and far less well researched than typical comments that I have become used to receiving on the EdinPhoto web site. I don't know yet how much work would be involved in providing the sort of feature that you suggest on the EdinPhoto web site, or whether it might make more sense to run Twitter and/or Facebook pages alongside the EdinPhoto web site. I'm not sure how that would be likely to work in practice. Sending Comments to me by email You mentioned that you have sometimes held back from sending comments to me because you did not want to add to my emails. There's no need for you to hold back. Please just send your emails to me. I can usually cope with that sort of email fairly simply. What is likely to take more time is when I get requests to re-scan multiple images at higher resolution or to search for many email addresses including some several years old! Also, it can be quite time-consuming for me to cope with an email that covers several different subjects, spread across the EdinPhoto web site. However, I do like to add content from such emails to the most appropriate pages on the EdinPhoto web site so that they can be more easily found by people searching for information and memories on a topic. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 2, 2013 |
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Reply 4. from Winnie Lisowski (née Veitch) Dunbar, East Lothian, Scotland |
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"Hi Peter, I honestly think your site is perfect. Its easy to view as you have everything so organised and group everything in the correct place. Your regulars that view, I’m sure, feel the same way as I do. You put a heck of a lot of effort and time in doing this and if I were you I'd be afraid to expand it. If you were looking for more visitors then I would understand you expanding it, but I know how much time you take and at times have backlogs which is bad enough without adding to them. I have never viewed any other site apart from Lost Edinburgh which I looked at once and sent them a photo of Parsons Green. then I decided when I found your site that it was definitely a whole lot better. Not only do you show all the info, but you have a great knowledge of photography and of Edinburgh which makes a huge difference in what your produce. Those other sites probably don’t know the first thing about old photography or Edinburgh and just do it as best they can. Think well Peter, you don’t want to be overloaded, you have to leave time for the rest of things you want to do in life too. Love your site to bits I think you know that, plus your so, so helpful with enquiries too." Winnie Lisowski (née Veitch). Dunbar, East Lothian, Scotland |
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Hi Winnie Thanks for your encouraging comments and advice. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 2, 2013 |
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Reply 5. from Eleanor Dzivane Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland |
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"Hi Peter, For my part I still faithfully browse your site on an almost daily basis I still enjoy anything on Abbeyhill and Leith area but cannot comment on changes to your site as I'm not in the least technical. Simple is still the best and you're site is still simply the best!" Eleanor Dzivane, Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland: December 2, 2013 |
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Hi Eleanor: Thanks for your 'Simple is Best' advice. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 2, 2013 |
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Reply 6. from Avril Finlayson Smith Bendigo, Victoria, Australia |
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"Hi Peter, I've just been reading your question. I do hope you don't change the format. Like the others, I am very happy with the way it is. I too look at it every day and find it so easy to use. We are not all keen, I'm sure, on the many other ways that so many people go on to these days, such as Facebook and Twitter, or any others. You do a marvellous job in all you do, and I personally appreciate all your hard work and would be sad to see it go like so many of these other sites. I just felt I should add my thought and thanks to you." Eleanor Dzivane, Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland: December 2, 2013 |
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Hi Avril Thanks for taking the time to send your appreciative comments. I'm pleased to say that, so far as I am concerned, there is no danger of the site vanishing, and I would not want to make any changes to it that might make it more difficult for you and others to use. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 2, 2013 |
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Reply 7. from Lilian Young Hamilton Square, New Jersey, USA |
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"Hi Peter, I am a faithful reader of your site on a daily basis and in its present format it is extremely friendly to use to those of us who get so much enjoyment from it. If you have to update/change it, please make it as easy to travel through as it is in its present status." Lilian Young, Hamilton Square, New Jersey, USA: December 2, 2013 |
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Hi Lilian: Thanks for your comments. I'll try to follow your advice. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 2, 2013 |
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Reply 8. from Brian Reid Newtongrange, Edinburgh |
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"Hi Peter, I just found your site today and am enjoying it very much through the railway archives. To be honest I find humans are always trying to advance, improve, change which in the end causes more problems more hassle more stress. The ethos of your site is history and I enjoy the easy way to view it through your site. For me keep it simple . 'Flickr' re-designed their site and I hate how how hard it is now to just view pictures. I sound like an old man but im only 45. Keep up the good work as Edinburgh is a fascinating place to be delving into its past. Hopefully il get round to sending you some of my family's past pictures." Brian Reid, Newtongrange, Edinburgh: December 2, 2013 |
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Hi Brian: Thanks for your comments. You're not the only person to have made a plea to 'keep it simple'. I'll take note of that. I've made no significant changes to the design of the site over the past 10 years, though the number of pages and pictures on the site has continued to increase. Based on the comments that I've received so far today, I may make no significant changes to the design of the site over the next 10 years! I'm still planning to keep the site entirely non-commercial (e.g. no adverts on the site) and I don't have anybody requiring me to follow any particular formats for the site, so I'll try to keep it simple. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 2, 2013 |
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Reply 9. from Bob Henderson Burdiehouse, Edinburgh |
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"Hi Peter, I find that the sight as it is perfect for me. It is quick and easy to use. I often search with my wife’s Samsung tablet and have no problems with that either. Personally I would rather you used the time updating and emailing." Brian Reid: December 2, 2013 |
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Hi Bob: Thanks for your advice. It's helpful for me to know that you have not had any problem in using your wife's Samsung tablet to search the site.. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 2, 2013 |
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Reply 10. from Gus Coutts Duddingston, Edinburgh |
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"Hi Peter, Regarding possible changes to the site my feeling is to keep it the same as I think the present format is as near perfect as possible and it is the first site I visit every morning, eager to view any new material.. I note your concern about a reduction in visitor numbers and also your concern at being swamped by e-mails if that number were to increase significantly. I only came across the site by accident and have since pointed many individuals towards the site. Some weeks ago you published a set of stats re the numbers of site visitors and where they came from. I was surprised at how few of the contributors were actually located in the Edinburgh area - as I recall it was either 12,000 or 14,000. I know you don't want to be swamped by e-mails but am surprised that I have never seen any mention in the media of the site. Given the dire state and decline in quality of The Scotsman and Edinburgh Evening News I'm sure that Johnston Press would welcome any article you cared to submit - there must be so much potential site material out there amongst the near half million population in Edinburgh. I can understand and appreciate your desire to maintain control of what is, after all, your baby but would it not be possible for the likes of The Libraries Dept. or SCRAN to provide some personnel support in responding to submitted e-mails/material. Could lottery funding not be a possibility to provide support without you losing control. If ever there was something that fitted what the purpose of Lottery Funding should be it is The Edinphoto site. An area that must take up considerable time for you is when people submit School Class or other Group photos along with a list of names and you have to put the names into a standard site format. I have Class photos form 1946-1958 with only 2 years missing and can remember about 90% of the names but have not submitted them as I realise the work it would involve for you. I have often wondered how you created the site. Did you create it from scratch or is it built up from a piece of commercially available software. If you created it from scratch there must be a market for the format. Do other cities have similar sites or is Edinphoto unique? Finally losing the site would be like losing a limb - I know it is a bit ghoulish but what would happen to the site if you were to fall under a bus or tram however the unlikelihood of the latter being a risk." Gus Coutts, Duddingston, Edinburgh: December 3, 2013 |
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Hi Gus: Thank you Thanks for your comments and all your supportive suggestions. First, in response to your final paragraph, I can assure you that, as far as I'm concerned, I'll do what I can to ensure that the site will survive. I've agreed arrangements with National Library of Scotland that they will take periodic copies of the site, so it should survive if I find that I am no longer able to look after it - so that's encouraging. These arrangements have not yet been implemented, but NLS assure me that their plans are in hand. Funding and Support I've never made a point of seeking either funding or publicity for the EdinPhoto web site, but one or two articles about the site have appeared in the press, including quite a long article in 'The Scots Magazine' a few years ago, which I appreciated. I know that Edinburgh Central Library, National Library of Scotland, RCAHMS and others are well aware of the site, and several of the local history groups are aware of the site and make good use of it. Resources Yes, some tasks can take a while, such as: - restoring some of the old photos before adding them to the web site. - finding old-email addresses, especially when the person asking for them spells the names incorrectly! - compiling the tables of names for some of the school class photos, especially where there appear to be discrepancies or ambiguities in the details that are sent to me. So far as the old school class photos are concerned, I've tried to ration the site to a few photos, at most, from each school, but I've kept a note of any photos that I've received but have not used, so that I can respond to anybody who contacts me searching for particular photos. So, Gus, if you'd like to send me a couple of your photos with names, I could probably add them to the web site. Even better, if you have any memories of the school, or of any of the the people in the photos, that I could add to the web site along with the photos, that would be good. Visitors from Around the World In fact, I've received emails about the EdinPhoto web site from about 9,000 people, and only about 21% of them have written from Edinburgh. About 41% have written from elsewhere in Britain and 38% from other parts of the world, but I know that many of those who have written from outside Edinburgh are former residents of the city who are now scattered around the world. As for visitors to the EdinPhoto web site, the most recent time that I looked at this was in August 2009. I found that the site had been viewed from 242 of the 247 countries in the world that then had access to the Internet. i.e. all countries except Antarctica, Comoros, Galapagos Islands, Mayotte and Western Sahara. It would be interesting to discover whether or not there have been visitors from any of those five countries since 2009, but the Matrixstats program that I use to search for this information currently 'times out' each time I try to use it. Web Site Design Yes, I did build the site from scratch, rather than use any commercially available templates. I built it in 2001, using the Microsoft's Front Page program and am still using the 2003 edition of that program to update the site daily. When I built the site there were fewer packages around for providing web site templates, and it was before the days of Facebook, Twitter, Flicker and many of the other social media sites that are now widely used. I'm not aware of any other similar sites that have been set up for other cities. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 3, 2013 |
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Reply 11. from Donald Grant Penicuik, Midlothian, Scotland |
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"My message, as someone with an electronic and mechanical background, is the simple adage used in those fields: 'If it ain't broke don't fix it' !" Donald Grant, Penicuik, Midlothian, Scotland: December 3, 2013 |
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Hi Donald Thank you That's a nice clear message for me. Thank you ! Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 3, 2013 |
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Reply 12. from Robert (Eddie) Williamson Pickering, Ontario, Canada |
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"I like the way the EdinPhoto site is. I do not like Facebook and never have been on Twitter. Also, I got in touch with the Best Man from my we4dding through your site. We had not been in touch for nearly 50 years. Thank you very much. Keep up the good work." Robert (Eddie) Williamson, Pickering, Ontario, Canada: December 3, 2013 |
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Hi Eddie: Thank you Thanks for your comments. I'm pleased that you were able to get in touch with the Best Man from your wedding. Whatever I do to the web site design (which may be nothing!) I'll try to ensure that you and others will be able to continue to use the site in the same way as you have become accustomed to using it. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 3, 2013 |
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Reply 13. from David Bain Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England |
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"I have a feeling that any change might bring you more aggravation to no great advantage. The site works well and the only change which I thought might ease your email traffic would be a forum. T he trouble is that no matter what the subject, there are always idiots out there who delight in causing problems on forums and someone - that would be you! - would have to police them. It might, therefore, be self-defeating." David Bain, Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England |
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Hi David: Thank you Thanks for your comments. That's helpful. I'd not like to make changes to the site that might cause problems or more work in the future. My thoughts, at this stage are that a forum of some sort and/or links to Twitter/Facebook pages, might appeal to a proportion of the EdinPhoto users (and might also increase the Google Ranking for the site) but monitoring any messages received could become time consuming and it would be one more thing to keep an eye on. Having the web site, Guest Book and a forum might well be too much. In practice, I've found that there are a small number of users who use the Guest Book, but I think it unlikely that the messages that they post there will be seen by users searching for specific details or topics. That's why I often take postings that I find in the Guest Book and also add them to the appropriate part of the EdinPhoto web site. Another disadvantage of the Guest Book is that people who post messages there often don't leave their email addresses, so anybody wanting to make contact with them might have difficulty. If I do decide to add a forum to the EdinPhoto web site at any stage, perhaps I should also consider whether or not the web site still needs to have a Guest Book. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 3, 2013 |
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Reply 14. from Lilian Young Hamilton Square, New Jersey, USA |
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Thank you to Lilian Young who wrote again: Lilian wrote:
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"Hi Peter, Thanks for your reply to my email regarding the proposed changes to your website. I do hope that you won't make too many changes to an already wonderful website. I get hours of enjoyment from it and have turned my family and friends onto it too." Lilian Young, Hamilton Square, New Jersey, USA: December 3, 2013 |
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Hi Lilian: Thanks for your reply. There is a consistent message coming through from yourself and others, so I'll try to ensure that, whatever I do, I'll not make too many changes to the web site. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 3, 2013 |
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Reply 15. from Simon Capaldi Sheriffhall, Midlothian, Scotland |
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Thank you to Lilian Young who wrote again: Lilian wrote:
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"Peter, I like the way the website is and would not change the way it is. Facebook and Twitter mean nothing to me. What I like most are maps and photos of old Edinburgh which I imagine most people want to see, as well as recollections. I am not too keen on today's photos which, however well composed, are of little interest to me personally, eg a photo of the Forth Bridge reflected in a car windo. This is not a criticism but an observation! I have six websites I browse daily and yours is the first I go to." Simon Capaldi, Midlothian, Scotland: December 3, 2013 |
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Hi Simon: Thanks for your comments. It's always interesting to read about which parts of the EdinPhoto web site appeal to different people. I'm aware of your interest in the maps. Messages that you've sent to me in response to some of my 'Where is it?' photos have been helpful. Thank you. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 3, 2013 |
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Reply 16. from Ian Taylor South Glasgow, Scotland |
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Thank you to Ian Taylor for sending the message below. Ian sent this message when there were only replies 1 to 9 on this page. Ian wrote:
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"Hi Peter, I’ll second replies 1,2,4,5,6,7,8,9 without hesitation Your site is your baby and just grand as it is. Thank you for it." Ian Taylor, South Glasgow, Scotland: December 3, 2013 |
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Hi Ian: Thanks for your comments. You'll, no doubt, be pleased to see that comments 10,11,12,13,14,15 are also consistent with the comments that you've seconded above above. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 3, 2013 |
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Reply 17 from Allan Dodds Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England |
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Thank you to Ian Taylor for sending the message below. Ian sent this message when there were only replies 1 to 9 on this page. Ian wrote:
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Leave Alone! "I'd be tempted to leave well alone. The only suggestion I have is to separate factual information from social network-type posts." Social Network Messages "I like the anecdotes from old-timers, such as myself, as well as factual corrections when contributors get things round their necks. But, some people like to use the site as a means of connecting with old acquaintance, neighbours or schoolmates, and I sometimes feel that this may be inappropriate. But it's your site and perhaps you see this feature as one to be encouraged." Assistance "I've always felt that you may need an assistant. I'm not offering my services, though!" Allan Dodds, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England: December 4, 2013 (2 emails) |
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Hi Allan: Leave Alone!
Your "temptation to leave well alone" fits in
well with comments that I've received from many others, so I'll
follow that advice.
Social Network Messages I've very occasionally noticed that a message posted in the EdinPhoto Guestbook has been of a personal nature, perhaps describing what a person and their family is doing now, but bearing no relation to Edinburgh. I've felt that such messages might have been more appropriately posted on a social network such as Twitter or Facebook, but this has only happened very occasionally, so I don't regard it as a real problem. People have frequently contacted me trying to get in touch with old friends. I've helped whenever I've been able to, and have been happy to help. This seems to have been appreciated and I know that many old friends have been contacted. - Some requests have been to contact a person who has contributed to the EdinPhoto site. I can usually provide the latest email address that I have the person, but this may turn out to be no longer an active email address. - Other requests have been to contact a person who has never contacted the EdinPhoto web site. This can be more difficult, and is is less likely to be successful. However, if the request comes with an Edinburgh story about the person concerned, I can often add the story to the 'Recollections' section of the EdinPhoto web site and end by asking if anybody knows how to contact the person concerned." Assistance "As for your comment about need for assistance with the site, I believe that I would have no problem in keeping a team of 4 to 6 people fully occupied for the next couple of years. As to whether or not I'd be able to ensure that all their input to the web site was consistent and all the links worked in the way I wished them to, that's another matter. However, for the time being at least, I'm expecting to continue to update the EdinPhoto site myself. I'll do what I can to ensure that I don't get too 'bogged down' in any particular topic, and will try to add new pages and photos to the site on a wide variety of topics." Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 3, 2013 |
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Reply 18 from Mike Cheyne Beaconsfield, Buckinghamshire, England |
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"Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I like your website as it is. I check it every day and I can honestly say I have learned more about Edinburgh than I did during the years I spent growing up there until I left for London in 1965. One of these days I will write down my memories of the sadly neglected Juniper Green and send them to you! Keep up the good work."
Mike Cheyne, Beaconsfield, Buckinghamshire, England |
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Hi Mike: Thanks for your comments. I'm pleased to say that after reading the responses from yourself and others, I've decided to leave the web site as it is. I look forward to reading your recollections of growing up in Juniper Green, whenever you are able to send them to me. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 4, 2013 |
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Reply 19 from Eric Gold East London, England |
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"I saw the changes that have been mentioned. I think you should leave the site as it is as it is great, easy to navigate, and the photos are great" Eric Gold, East London, England: December 5, 2013 |
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Reply 20 George Smith Nanaimo, Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada |
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Thank you to George T Smith who wrote: |
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Trams in Princes Street "I agree with the trend of the replies about changes to your site: if it works leave it as it is. I think you do extremely well as it seems you do things like Rumpole of the Bailey: 'Alone and without a leader'. I wish I had your energy and dedication." George T Smith, Nanaimo, Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada: December 20, 2013 |
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Reply 20 Terry Cox Fairmilehead, Edinburgh |
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Thank you to Terry Cox who wrote: |
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Trams in Princes Street "I think I'm with the majority as far as a redesign of the web site's concerned - it's fine the way it is." Terry Cox, Fairmilehead, Edinburgh: December 20, 2013 |
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