Fort Place, Leith

Questions

Photograph of

Fort Place

Request 1

Ian Foster, formerly of Edinburgh and now living in Perth, Western Australia, is carrying out family history research. He is looking for a photograph of Fort Place, Leith, before it was demolished.

Ian Foster: June 6, 2005

Request 2

Pauline Nyau is also looking for a photograph of Fort Place. Her great-grandparents lived there before travelling to Kenya.

Pauline Nyau: February 28, 2006

Request 3

Cathy Shanks (née Catherine MacLeod) who used to live in Forth Place is also looking for a photograph of Forth Place.

Cathy Shanks: August 3, 2006

Request 4

Jim MacFarlane who used to live in Forth Place and now lives in Estepona, Spain, is looking for a photograph of Fort Place

Cathy Shanks: August 3, 2006

Can you help?

If you know of any photos of the area in Leith, please e-mail me so that I can pass on details to those who have asked about them.

Thank you. - Peter Stubbs

Recollections
1.	Andrew Shortel Muirhouse, Edinburgh	- Hawthornvale + Fort Place
1a.	Jim Macfarlane Edinburgh	- Our Home - Shops - Far End of the Street - Around Fort Place - 4 Fort Place
2.	Annie (née Richardson)	- 18 Fort Place - 8 Fort Place - Play - Hamilton Place - Neighbours - Shops - Cairngorm House - Compulsory Purchase - Toys - Happy Days
3.	Annie (née Richardson)	- Kerby
4.	Jim Macfarlane Edinburgh	- Return to Fort Place - 2009
5.	Yvonne Veitch Orangeville, Ontario, Canada	- Homes - Schools
6.	Ian Foster Western Australia	- Fort Street Tenements
7.	Bob Leslie Glasgow, Scotland	- Joiner's Shop - Sweets and Drinks - Murder in the Street
8.	John Carson Edinburgh	- Fort Place
9.	Susan Dobbie (née Stevenson) Langley, British Columbia, Canada	- North Fort Street - Family, School, Memories - Orphanage
10.	Jim Macfarlane Edinburgh	- Fort Place - Neighbours
11.	Bob Leslie Glasgow, Scotland	- Orcadians in Leith - Shop - Family - Teachers + Pupils - Shops - Play
12.	Jim Macfarlane Gibraltar	- Two More Photos
13.	Jim Macfarlane Gibraltar	- No.4, Fort Place - Lights - Our House - Back Green - Neighbours - School

Recollections

Andrew Shortel

Muirhouse, Edinburgh

Thank you to Andrew Shortel (b.1966) for his recollections of the Fort area.

Andrew wrote:

Hawthornvale and Fort Place

"I have vivid memories of this area.

I remember:

- Celie Malcolm's newsagent shop. I believe she is still around, at least in her 80s.

- The little-known film, 'Just Another Saturday', starring Billy Connolly, Eileen McCallum and others.

It was filmed coming out of Hawthornvale where I lived at the time, past Halfway House and around Fort Place."

Andrew Shortel: Muirhouse Edinburgh: April 20. 2006

Recollections

1a.

Jim Macfarlane

Edinburgh

Thank you to Jim Macfarlane who wrote:

Our Home

"In the top right hand corner of this photo there are three white windows. The Blakes lived there. Below that are the three windows of the flat that I was brought up in. It used to have a T-pole for hanging out the washing.

Our flat had one main room with a bed, a grange fireplace, with a space for a kitchenette (middle window), and a door to a coal bunker. The lobby had the toilet. The end room had a bed for my brother and me and another bed for my sister. It was not plumbed for hot water.

In the 1940s, it had gas lighting throughout with a large battery for the 'wireless'. The view looks east to the high-rise Fort buildings* which must have been built around 1956. I left in 1953."

* Actually Cairngorm House: see Recollections 2 below.

Shops

"On the other side of the street is the grocer on the Fort Street corner. During my years it had a 'Johnnie Walker' ad painted on the wall. The shop next to the grocer was Mrs Arkis' odds and ends shop."

Far end of the Street

"The houses down the far end of Fort Place can also be seen in this photo of Hamilton Street."

Around Fort Place

"If the photographer had taken a photo directly behind him to Dudley Bank the view would be much the same as today.

If he had taken a photo to the south he would have captured :

- the shop belonging to the carpenter' who used to rescue us when we lost the door key.

- Young the butcher.

- Duncan the crystally ice-cream and sweets shop.

- Fort Street School, and the wall of Leith Fort.

To the north, he would have seen:

- Lamb's shop.

- the wall of the 'Coalie'.

- the garage.

- a bombed building, probably cleared away by 1959.

- Our playground."

4 Fort Place

"Here is a photo of me and my brother standing in the entrance to 4 Fort Place in 1976, a little before the street was demolished. The stairs and banisters were very familiar."

Jim Macfarlane, Edinburgh: February 22, 2009

Recollections

Annie (née Richardson)

Edinbrugh

Thank you to Annie who wrote:

18 Fort Place

"I lived in Fort Place for the first ten years of my life, from 1968, first in No 18 which was way down the right hand side near the bungalow at the end of the picture.

This was a ground floor flat with a livingroom/kitchen, toilet, coal cupboard and bedroom. We used to play opposite on scrap bit of land we called Jacky Backys."

8 Fort Place

"We then moved to No 8, second flat. This flat was a lot bigger. We had a large bedroom to the back, small internal boxroom (my bedroom), front bedroom, long room with toilet, living room/kitchen with a small room just off which was where our kitchen sink was. We used a tin bath to wash in. :-( "

Play

"We played kerby in the street and hidey. One day while I was 'He' I was standing in the centre of the street wondering which way to go look when suddenly I heard a smash, the ground floor flat opposite No18 had gone on fire and the mother and son came flying out the window to escape the flames!! The old lady who lived two above fainted, thinking her flat would go up!!!"

Hamilton Place

"Hamilton Place ran through Fort Place. We all thought that one of the stairs, No 6, was haunted. Only one or two flats were lived in and the stair was heavily covered in graffiti. We used to dare each other to go in!"

Neighbours

"One of my fav. neighbours was Mrs Combe who lived opposite us in No 8. She she spent many an hour leaning out her window watching us play."

Shops

"I spent my pocket money in:

- Robertson's Newsagent

- Celie Malcolm's sweety shop. It was diagonally across from Robertson's

- Charlie's (I believe that was really called Duncan's but I never knew this until recently). It was round the corner in North Fort Street.

We shopped at the Trendsetter supermarket. I'm sure there was a chippy opposite Robertsons but I can't recall ever seeing it open. Perhaps it only opened late. I was just young then."

Cairngorm House

"My Mum lived at 3 Fort Place with her family (Duncans) before she got married, perhaps around the time this photo was taken.

The high rise in the background was Cairngorm House, not the Fort building. It was one of two, the other being Grampian House, both gone and replaced, in my opinion, with an even uglier building, if that's possible!"

Compulsory Purchase

"The council made a compulsory purchase on all the homes in the street so they could knock it all down. I'm sure my parents got around £3300 for BOTH flats."

Toys

"My brother and I went back to the street not long after we moved. We somehow got access to our old flat, obviously before demolition, and found that our parents had left a lot of our old toys behind!!! The ginger haired ventriloquist dummy is the one that sticks in my mind most. We were most upset but couldn't say anything when we got home as we should not have been there :-( ."

Happy Days

"Happy days spent in this street - I'd happily go back to them."

Annie (née Richardson), Edinburgh: March 12, 2009

Recollections

Annie (née Richardson)

Edinbrugh

Annie mentioned playing 'kerby' in the street. I asked her how it was played and she explained:

Kerby

"One kid would stand on the opposite pavement, and would throw a football at the kerb, hoping it would bounce back to them. If not, the other person got their turn!

You can't really play it nowadays as too many parked cars and too much traffic :-( .

While sitting, waiting my turn to play (we only had one ball!!) I used to enjoy cleaning in between the cobbles on the road with an ice lolly stick!"

Annie (née Richardson), Edinburgh: March 16, 2009

Recollections

Jim Macfarlane

Edinburgh

Thank you to Jim Macfarlane who wrote:

Return to Fort Place

2009

"I thought I would have a look at the site of Fort Place this summer. The only thing I could identify was the wall which bordered Fort Street School.

The Wall

On the Fort Place side of this wall it was all 'backgreen', and not a usable place for children. It was full of washing lines. The hooks are still in the wall."

Jim MacFarlane, Edinburgh: September 9, 2009

Recollections

Yvonne Veitch (née Forbes)

Orangeville, Ontario, Canada

Thank you to Yvonne Veitch (née Forbes) for posting a message in the EdinPhoto guestbook.

Yvonne wrote:

Homes

"I was born in Torphins Aberdeenshire Scotland in 1956, then moved to Edinburgh and stayed in Fort Place, then Fort House."

Schools

"I attended Fort Primary School, then Leith Academy Secondary School. I played hockey and was in Barton home team for Leith Academy.

I'd love to hear from anyone who thinks they remember me."

Yvonne Veitch (née Forbes), Orangeville, Ontario, Canada.
Message posted in EdinPhoto Guestbook, October 10, 2010

Reply to Yvonne?

I don't know Yvonne's email address, so if you'd like to send an email to her it would probably be best to post a reply below the message that she left in the EdinPhoto guest book on October 10, 2010

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: October 12, 2010

Recollections

Ian Foster

West Australia

Thank you to Ian Foster for posting a message in the EdinPhoto guestbook.

Ian wrote:

Fort Place Tenements

"I was interested to read the Valuation Roll for 1915. My grandfather lived at 7 Fort Place, Leith. He was paying £11 7s 6d (£11.37) in annual rent to a Mrs Nicol.

There were also 18 other families in that tenement, all paying to Mrs Nicol. She would have been a rich lady in those days!

I always assumed that the council would have owned the property, not investors This Mrs Nicol also owned the tenements at Nos 9 and 11, Fort Place."

Ian Foster, West Australia: Message posted in April 24, 2012

Recollections

Bob Leslie

Glasgow, Scotland

Bob Leslie wrote:

Joiner's Shop

"I don't have any pictures of the Fort area, unfortunately, but my father - Jack Leslie - had a joiner's shop just out of shot on the picture you have:

Sweets and Drinks

"His shop was on the corner of Fort Place and North Fort Street, just opposite Harcus' shop where you could get a 'penny Vantis' which was some kind of fruit squash drink and a 'penny Dainty' toffee.

They later introduced the 'Jubbly' orange drink which they would also freeze for you. It's a wonder we had any teeth left!"

Murder in the Street

"I remember a murder - a fatal stabbing - was committed one night outside my father's shop and we gazed, horrified, at the bloodstain left on his door."

Bob Leslie, Glasgow, Scotland, October 13, 2012

Recollections

John Carson

Edinburgh

Thank you to John Carson who wrote:

Fort Place

Schools

"I stayed in Fort Place, Leith from 1940 to 1965. I went to Fort School, then to David Kilpatrick School

Neighbours

"Here are the names of my boyhood friends:

*- 3 Fort Place*	*1st flat*	*Ian Foster*
*- 3 Fort Place*	*ground flat*	*John + Barbara Dick*
*- 4 Fort Place*	*top flat*	*Stewart + May Blaike*
*- 4 Fort Place*	*1st*	Robert Robertson my special friend
*- 5 Fort Place*	*top flat*	John + Barbara Dick not related to my friends at No. 3
*- 7 Fort Place*		Some of the Rutherford lads

Games

"These are some of the games we played:

- Bows and Arrows.

- Kites.

- Kongers**, chestnuts on strings

- Girds, rolling a metal wheel around the street.

- Marbles, kneeling on our hands, then up the dirty gutters, in short trousers, it's a wonder we never ended up in hospital.

- We played in the bombed buildings in George Street, looking for money. There was no 'health and safety' then. Did we ever find any money? Sad to say, not a penny, but great fun!

- We went into the collie***, along the back of the posh Dudley houses, pinching apples. We'd put them up ure jumper, then run for ure lives. I told my friends not to do it, ha ha.

- We went into Fort Place stairs, lifted the mats from the flat doors and left them in the stair well, then shout up, "The stair carpet's away!'" then run for it.

- We would get string and tie the door handles together in the stair, knock at the doors, then run.

- And so many other games - It was all good fun and we never did any harm.

- Happy memories!"

Remember Me?

"If anybody remembers me, I'd be pleased to hear from them."

John Carson, Edinburgh: February 27, 2013

Questions for John Carson?

** I've asked John what Kongers was. It's the game that I call Conkers.

*** I've asked John what the Collie was. He tells me that's what he and his pals called the coal yard, off George Street at Leith.

Reply to John Carson?

If you'd like to send a reply to John Carson, please email me to let me know, then I'll pass on John's email address to you so that you will be able to send a message direct to him.

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh, April 7, 2013

Recollections

Susan Dobbie (née Stevenson)

Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Susan Dobbie wrote:

North Fort Street

Family, School and Memories

"I was born and raised in Leith. I went to Couper Street School then James Gillespie's in Edinburgh.

Father worked at Leith Docks, then at Newhaven Fish Market.

- I lived on Admiralty Street during the war years.

- I used to roll our Easter Eggs at Starbank Park.

- I loved the old State Cinema, the Palace and the Grand."

Orphanage

"I had an adopted sister who family lore says was adopted from North Fort Street orphanage….I can't find any record of such an orphanage. Was there an orphanage in North Fort Street?

My sister was was born 1927, but was adopted as a toddler. She is long dead now."

Susan Dobbie (née Stevenson), Langley British Columbia, Canada*: April 7, 2013
Susan says: "I've lived n Langley since 1958, but still feel a 'Leither'."

Recollections

10.

Jim Macfarlane

Edinburgh

Thank you to Jim Macfarlane for writing again.

Jim wrote:

Fort Place

Neighbours

"A couple of comments have caught my eye.

1. The first is from John Carson. John remembers friends in Fort Place that I knew. In fact, I think I knew him if his nickname was Joky (pronounced Joe Kay) and he lived opposite me.

I was in 4 Fort Place (with the Blakes above) and Joky Carson was in No3? opposite, I think on the top floor. I have a clear picture of him as a lanky dark haired quiet type.

2. The other comment is from Bob Leslie whose Dad was the carpenter. I have referred to the carpenter before and never ever registered the name was Leslie. To me he was Mr Carpenter as that was the name above his shop door which was diagonally on the corner of Fort Place and Fort Street.

My memory is of him taking away with a chisel the left frame of our door to get access to the Yale lock, we having locked ourselves out.

Bob mentions the Harcus shop. (I have another spelling but it sounds the same.) I remember the son and palled about with him quite a bit. I remember his Mum as well permanently behind the counter."

Jim Macfarlane, Edinburgh: July 21, 2013

Recollections

11.

Bob Leslie

Glasgow, Scotland

Thank you to Bob Leslie for writing again about Harcus Shop, that he first mentioned in his Recollections 7 above.

Bob wrote:

Orcadians in Leith

Shop

"I don't know why it never occurred to me before, but Harcus - the name of the people with the sweet shop at Fort - is an Orcadian surname.

My father, born in Stromness, would undoubtedly have been socially acquainted with the Harcus family through the Orkney Association which was very active in Edinburgh and organised all manner of social events."

Family

"Leith was full of Orcadians. My grandfather, also Bob Leslie, was from Stronsay, and my granny, Annie Leslie née Skinner, was from the tiny island of Graemsay just across Scapa from Stromness. They lived at 10 Lindsay Road on the first floor."

Teachers and Pupils

"My teacher in my latter years at Leith Academy Primary School, Mr Stevenson, was also Orcadian, as was one of my sister Carol's teachers, Margaret something - I don't recall her surname but she used to play piano at Orkney Association 'do's.

Mr MacInnes, the deputy headmaster, was from somewhere in Orkney too. Some of my fellow pupils, to judge by their surnames, were also of Orcadian descent. I remember John Stout and Alan Swanney.

Shops

With regard to other shops in the area, I remember:

- Hendry's, the licensed grocer on Lindsay Road

- Jimmy Clark's, grocer's and paper shop, round the corner (North Fort Place?)

- The wee novelty shop on the corner of those two streets. I remember longing for a Hopalong Cassidy watch that was in the window!

- Doig's the Dairy, further up from Jimmy Clark's

- Harry Tait or Tate (?), the plumber'. His shop was up the same street, almost to the corner. He was a good friend of my father. They often worked together on jobs.

- The 'chippie', further along Lindsay Road was our favourite shop. On a Friday, they would do skate, my father's preferred fish and fritters, which my sister, Carol (or Carol Ann as she was generally called then) and I loved!

- De Marco's, at the other end of Lindsey Road, which sold brilliant ice cream.

- Lanni's, a great café and ice-cream shop, wasalong the Promenade towards Newhaven.

- Bobbie's Bookshop which I used to haunt was further afield. You could buy second-hand books and comics there, then trade them back for half-price when you had finished with them. There were two of those shops as I recall, one near the Shore (Bernard Street?) and one in Easter Road, if I really wanted a long walk!"

Play

"Opposite Doig's the Dairy was a vacant overgrown site - a bombsite? We kids called it 'The Grassy Green'. It had the remains of an old sandstone wall which we would practise 'dreeping' from.

We would also bash together wee bits of the sandstone that had fallen off the wall to make a powder that we called 'champ'. We would pretend it was gold dust as we played at Cowboys."

Bob Leslie, Glasgow, Scotland, July 21, 2013

Recollections

12.

Jim Macfarlane

Gibraltar

Thank you to Jim Macfarlane who wrote Recollections 1 above, for replying to Bob Leslie's comments in Recollections 11 above.

Jim wrote:

Two More Photos

"I see there have been more entries from Bob Leslie. I've now come across these two photos of his Dad's shop "Mr Carpenter" on the corner of Fort Place and North Fort Street."

North Fort Street and Fort Place

Photo 1

"The person who took this photo was standing in North Fort Street.

That's Bob's Dad's joiner's hop "Mr Carpenter", to the right of the junction with the car.

You can see that the photo would have been taken in the late-1970s as the properties are closed in part.

Boyle's shop in this photo was Young's the butcher in 1950.

Next door to the butcher was Duncan the newsagent' This shop also had ice cream cones and cinnamon. He was next to Fort Street School.

Opposite the boarding on the left was Lamb's, grocer (?). I have a photo of tht when it was called George Street and the railings had not yet been removed for the war effort."

Fort Place

Photo 2

"Here, two doleful boys lead alongside the edge of the corner shop..

The grey Harcus shop is boarded up.

Next to the car, there used to be a Johnny Walker advert. 'Still Going Strong' was the caption.

Jocky Carson, if I have the right name, lived in the next entrance, at the top, overlooking the shelters at the back."

Jim Macfarlane, Gibraltar: July 28+29+29+30, 2013

Recollections

13.

Jim Macfarlane

Gibraltar

Thank you to Jim Macfarlane for writing again, this time with some of his memories of living at 4 Fort Place in the 1940s.

Jim wrote this message to Johnny Carson, who also used to live at Fort Place:

No.4, Fort Place

Lights

"I remember lights over the mantelpiece and one per landing. There were also gas lamps in the streets, each with a glowing mantle.

I can no longer picture your friend, Robert Robertson who, like me, lived at 4 Fort Place, but I found it a bit scary late in the evening to pass his dark door on the right with one light below the banister on the landing."

Our House

"By the mantelpiece in our house there was a car-type battery to power a triangular radio. Opposite was a metal fireplace with oven, and the coal came from a large cupboard to the right.

My Mum did well with a kitchenette and the pulley outside the window. We were a family of five in two rooms and a toilet but no bath. Coal was delivered by a horse drawn wagon. I think the horses were drays."

Back Green

"I don't remember any back green party. No4 was a bit 'off-limits' as the washing lines were always full there.

I remember the air raid shelters with ease. They were our playing ground like the `coaly´. It seems strange that I was ever in your flat. My memory is that you overlooked the air raid shelters. We were directly under the Blakes in No4 (with brother Alan and sister Mae).

The homes in our street would be called 'poor tenements' now, but we knew nothing of that at the time."

Neighbours

"I was a bit young for it, but fancied Margaret Lawrie at No.6 . I last saw her in 1957 at a rugby game against her school, Leith Academy. The team was photographed for the Leith Gazette. I wonder where those photos are now."

School

"I went to Fort Place School in 1945 and our teacher was Mrs Gray. I them went to Trinity.

My name was McFarlane in those days, but my schoolteacher, Mr Finlayson, wrote 'Macfarlane' on the blackboard and that became my name. Later, we discovered that my name really was MacFarlane!"

Jim Macfarlane, Gibraltar: July 30, 2013