Recollections
1.	Dougie Trickett	- Old A9 Road
2.	Simon Capaldi Sheriffhall, Midlothian, Scotland	- The Old Road
3.	Phil Wilson Aberdeen, Scotland	- Comet - The Old Road
4.	Phil Wilson Aberdeen, Scotland	- The Old Road
5.	Phil Wilson Aberdeen, Scotland	- Old A9 Road
6.	Bryan Gourlay	- Aerodrome - Lights on the A9 - Cross-winds - Flight to London - Vanguard
7.	Bryan Gourlay	- 10pm Flight from London
8.	Phil Wilson Aberdeen, Scotland	- Road Crossing: Photo + Map
9.	Simon Capaldi Sheriffhall, Midlothian, Scotland	- Man in a Box - Flashing Lights
10.	Harry Devine Lanark, Lanarkshire, Scotland	- Road and Runway - Date of the Photo
11.	Colin Lourie Stockbridge, Edinburgh	- Viscount - Ferranti Canberra - Traffic - Road and Runway
12.	Bruce Johnstone Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland	- A9
13.	Colin Lourie Stockbridge, Edinburgh	- 1923 Map - 1966 Aerial View
14.	Ian Thomson Stockbridge, Edinburgh	- The Road to Kirkliston
15.	Harry Devine Lanark, Lanarkshire, Scotland	Scottish Screen Archive Film - Runway 13 - Runway Extension
16.	John Yule Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland	- A9 and Runway - Earlier Accidents - Road Re-alignment
17.	John Yule Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland	- A9 and Runway - Accidents
18.	Laurie Thompson Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland	- Late Night London-to-Edinburgh - BEA Vanguard Flight - High Winds at Turnhouse - BEA's West London Air Terminal
19.	Robert Edminson Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland	- Edinburgh Flying Club - Air Raid, 1939
20.	Ray Melville Rosyth, Fife, Scotland	- Road and Runway - Edinburgh Flying Club - Viscounts, Vanguards, Tridents

Recollections

Dougie Trickett

Dougie Trickett remembers the early days of Edinburgh Airport, long before the new airport terminal and the new A9 Glasgow Road were built.

Dougie wrote:

Old A9 Road

"I'm having difficulty in finding a photo of the old A9 road where it used to cut across the airport runway.

From my childhood, I seem to remember a sign with flashing lights and a message something like:

'Wait Here While Lights Flash'.

I've searched for a photo for months without any luck."

Reply?

If you can suggest where Dougie might be able to find a photograph of the scene that he remembers from childhood, please email me, then I'll pass your message on to him.

Thank you.

- Peter Stubbs: May 5, 2009

Recollections

Phil Wilson

Aberdeen, Scotland

Thank you to Phil Wilson for telling me that he has now posted a question on the 'ed.general' newsgroup web site, to see if anybody knows anything about a road with traffic lights and warning signs that used to cross the runway at Edinburgh Airport.

Phil will let me know if he gets any feedback.

Phil added:

Comet

"I remember being taken in our car by my father to a road where it was possible to see aircraft taking off over one's head. I saw the 'Comet' there. Unfortunately, I can't remember exactly when but it was. The 'Comet' was still fairly new (?late 60s), and not yet regarded as a safety risk."

The Old Road

"It is my faint recollection that there were indeed traffic lights, warning signs and fencing there and that it was very near the main runway, crossing the flight path at some stage, if not the actual runway itself.

Does anyone else have any info about the exact circumstances here, or any recollections or pictures of the place at that time?"

Phil Wilson, Aberdeen, Scotland: May 11, 2009

Recollections

Phil Wilson

Aberdeen, Scotland

Thank you to Phil Wilson for telling me about the very quick response that he got after posting his question on the ed.general newsgroup.

Phil summarised the replies that he had received:

The Old Road

"I'm advised that the A9 to Kirkliston used to run from the Maybury, which at that time had no roundabout, to the perimeter of the airport at Turnhouse until at least the early 1970s.

There were traffic lights on the road as it had to cross the threshold of Runway 13 (but not the actual runway itself) and there was also fencing, which I remember seeing at the time.

Apparently the ghost of the missing section of the old road can still be seen on photos of the area on 'Google Earth'."

Phil Wilson, Aberdeen, Scotland: May 11, 2009

Recollections

Phil Wilson

Aberdeen, Scotland

Phil Wilson also sent me more information about his visit to Edinburgh Airport to see the 'Comet' (mentioned in 3 above).

Phil wrote:

Comet

"My trip to see the 'Comet' was occasioned by the commence-ment of services by that aircraft from Turnhouse in 1967 (as far as I can gather).

This will have been well advertised in advance, and my father certainly knew that the plane would be there. There were other watchers on the day and I have a vivid memory of the plane passing overhead, and the sense of excitement at the event.

The Comet was a version of Comet 4, which was produced successfully after the earlier unhappy accidents to the first variants of the plane."

Phil Wilson, Aberdeen, Scotland: May 11, 2009

Recollections

Bryan Gourlay

Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Thank you to Bryan Gourlay who wrote:

Aerodrome

"My hazy recollections of Turnhouse Airport in the 1960s are similar to Phil Wilson’s (Then, they had only just stopped calling it an aerodrome.)"

Lights on the A9

"I can remember being stopped a number of times at the lights on the A9 on the way to Kirkliston; I think because it was close to the north end of the runway and the planes were taking off or landing.

Before they built the M9, this was the main road from Edinburgh to Falkirk, the Kincardine Bridge, Stirling and beyond."

Cross Winds

"One of the problems with the Turnhouse runway was fearsome cross-winds which, all too often, meant your flight was transferred to Glasgow’s old airport at Abbotsinch, near Renfrew – not too far away from today’s airport – and you had to be bussed along the old A8.

Edinburgh being the ‘windy city’, it wasn’t too difficult to second-guess when this was likely to happen."

Flight to London

"I can vividly recall going for the 8.00 pm flight to London one gale-force-windy, Sunday night in the late 1960s, resigned to the trip on the clapped-out bus to Glasgow. When I arrived at the airport, to my astonishment, I could see the British European Airways’ Vickers Vanguard sitting ominously near the terminal.

When I checked in, and expressed my surprise to the check-in girl, she said the pilot knew the airport very well and was the only one to land an incoming aircraft all day. I think the assumption was he could also get it off the ground again without endangering life or limb.

In due course, we walked our way to the aircraft, trying our best to stay upright, appear brave and duly got seated. The pilot taxied to the south of the runway near the A8 and turned the aircraft round facing Kirkliston. With the brakes full on – the pilot revved up the engines to screaming point for about 30 seconds.

Then, with the cabin rattling like an old tin can and passengers’ knuckles pure white from holding on to the seat handles, he eventually let off the handbrake and we hurtled along the runway faster and for what seemed much longer than usual.

Suddenly the plane lifted off to be thrown about wildly by the wind, those of us in the tail section getting whipped about, before the pilot banked the lumbering Vanguard steeply to the West right into the wind, keeping the engines blaring on full throttle. I think this guy must have learnt the trick flying Spitfires of 603 Squadron that was based at RAF Turnhouse."

Vanguard

"A Vanguard was a four-engined, turboprop, clumsy, ugly-duckling, big brother of the lovely Vickers Viscount. The wings never seemed big enough to lift or keep the plane’s chunky big body in the sky. It must have been the sheer power of the constantly-droaning engines that got it off the ground. Nobody dozed off on a Vanguard. It was so popular that, according Wikipedia, they only made 44.

It was always a relief when you turned up at Turnhouse to find a Viscount – or I think a Comet – or ultimately a three-engined Trident."

Bryan Gourlay, Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland: May 12, 2009

Recollections

Bryan Gourlay

Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Bryan Gourlay sent another email, adding:

10pm Flight from London

"Another memory of Turnhouse was one Friday when I got the 10.00 pm graveyard flight back from Heathrow which sometimes didn’t get in until close to midnight, much to the staff’s chagrin as they just wanted to go home.

I collected my bag and made my way to the car park where my car had been for a few days. I then set about scraping a thick covering of ice and snow off the windows and windscreen and had to breathe hard on the frozen door locks to get them to work – only to find that my car wouldn’t start.

I retraced my steps to the terminal to get help, in the vain hope that the bus into Edinburgh might not have left yet – only to find the whole building locked up in complete darkness.

Obviously, the staff had quickly got all the passengers on their way and fled home. I finished up walking all the way to the Maybury and the Corstorphine Road where I picked up an empty taxi going back into Edinburgh.

In these days, you may remember BEA’s check-in and exit point for Heathrow was actually based in premises across from the tube station in Cromwell Road in London.

Passengers were ferried to and from Heathrow by a fleet of double-decker buses which towed a big, box-type trailer for the luggage.

Phil Wilson, Aberdeen, Scotland: May 11, 2009

Recollections

Simon Capaldi

Sheriffhall, Midlothian, Scotland

Thank you to Simon Capaldi who added:

Man in a Box

"Until approx 1973, a man sat in a box at the spot where the road was to be closed for a flight arrivalsand take offs - no matter which direction.

He would manually stop the traffic. My trick was to pass where he sat, then hide in the bushes at the side of the road, so that when an aircraft landed I would be directly underneath. He only caught me once!"

Flashing Lights

"Later, flashing lights were installed. But by then the novelty had worn off! The Kirkliston end of the road is a good place for today's spotters."

Simon Capaldi, Sheriffhall, Midlothian, Scotland: May 12, 2009

Recollections

10.

Harry Devine

Lanark, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Thank you to Harry Devine for responding to to Dougie Trickett's search for a photograph of the old A9 road where it used to cross Edinburgh Airport runway.

Harry wrote:

Road and Runway

"There is a photo of a Viscount coming in to land over the old Kirkliston Road on Colin Lourie's web site. **

In the lower-left corner of this photo, a plane spotter, signage and the airport approach lighting can all be seen.

The roadway did indeed run over the physical runway rather than just beneath the approach path. The runway width at 150ft and the angle of the road crossing meant the distance travelled on the runway was slightly greater than 150ft.

I’m uncertain if the route across was inside or outside the green threshold lights though.

Date of the Photo

"I am unable to date the image but it is, I think, of the V802 variant of the Viscount. This was introduced from 1957 and the older 701s were sold by 1963.

The 'red square' colour scheme came into being in 1960. There is a good chance, therefore, that this photo was taken between 1963 and 1968 when a newer logo was adopted."

Harry Devine, Lanark, Lanarkshire, Scotland: November 18, 2011 (3 emails).

Note: Harry Devine lived in Edinburgh and was a frequent spotter of aircraft at Edinburgh Airport before joining the RAF.

** To see this photo, please click on the 1st thumbnail image in 'Recollections 11' (below).

Recollections

11.

Colin Lourie

Stockbridge, Edinburgh

Thank you to Colin Lourie for allowing me to reproduce the photo from his web site mentioned in 'Recollections 10' above, and also for allowing me to reproduce more of his photos..

Colin wrote:

Viscount

"Here is a photo of a Vickers Viscount coming in to land at Edinburgh Airport in the 1960s."

Canberra

"Here is a shot of a Ferranti Canberra on its final approach, about to cross the Edinburgh-Kirkliston A9 road."

Traffic

"This photo shows the west-bound traffic stopped to allow an aircraft to land."

Road and Runway

"I have added the approximate line of the old A9 road (the horizontal black line) to this recent Google Earth clip. **

For the avoidance of doubt, the A9 was definitely outside the airport perimeter fence and the runway threshold was about 100 feet inside the fence - unlike Prestwick in the 1960s where the road actually crossed the runway."

Colin Lourie, Stockbridge, Edinburgh: November 18, 2011

** Colin also sent another map and aerial view. (See Recollections 13 below.)

Question

Road and Runway

In the comments above:

- Colin Lourie says that the A9 road:

"was definitely outside the airport perimeter fence".

- However, Harry Devine says that the A9 road:

"did indeed run over the physical runway, rather than just beneath the approach path."

How do we reconcile these comments? Might it be that initially the road ran over the runway, but by the 1960s it had been diverted around the end of the runway?

If you know the answer to this, please email me. ***

Thank you.

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: November 22, 2011

Update

*** Colin's answer and evidence in 'Recollections 13' below looks conclusive to me!

Recollections

13.

Colin Lourie

Stockbridge, Edinburgh

Thank you to Colin Lourie for writing again with further information about the A9 road along the boundary of Edinburgh Airport. (Please click on the images below to enlarge them.)

Colin wrote:

1923 OS Map

"The road coloured red in the top half of this map is the A9 Edinburgh-Kirkliston road.

I've also annotated this map to also show:

- BLUE LINES: The positions of the old runways in the 1960s.

- BROWN DOTTED LINE: The full airfield boundary.

- GREEN BARS: Location of the barriers used to stop traffic when aircraft were landing (or taking off, depending on the wind direction)."

1966 Aerial View

The A9 never crossed the Runway

"There is no doubt in my mind that the line of road in the 1960s was the same as it had been in earlier years, ie the route of the road was never changed to accommodate the runway (and the road never crossed the runway). This is borne out by this photo, taken in 1966:

As the A9 from Kirkliston passes through the centre of this photo, heading towards the lower-right corner, it makes a turn towards, not away from, the runway.

The dark line running almost horizontally across that photo is the (realigned) Gogar Burn. There was a bridge where the A9 crossed it on the S-bend in the middle of the photo.

It was from there that I took the photos of the Viscount and the Canberra landing at the airport."

Colin Lourie, Stockbridge, Edinburgh: November 23, 2011

Recollections

14.

Ian Thomson

Lake Maquarie, New South Wales, Australia

Ian Thomson also remembers Turnhouse Road (A9), the old road to Kirkliston.

Ian wrote

The Road to Kirkliston

"I travelled on frequently on this road, on my bike, in the 1940s and 1950s. It skirted the airfield before crossing the Almond, then climbing up to Kirkliston.

Just near the Almond Bridge, there was a wee road that branched off . It would take you through some lovely country and eventually come out on the Queensferry Road.

We boys, often 3 to 4 of us, would explore these areas on a Sunday. There was not a car to be seen. We often looked for chestnut trees or a feed of raspberries.

Time would fly before we headed home a different way, sometimes over the Clermiston with an 'apple raid' not uncommon."

Ian Thomson, Lake Maquarie, New South Wales, Australia: November 24, 2011

Recollections

15.

Harry Devine

Lanark, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Thank you to Harry Devine writing again and sending this link to an 8-minute Scottish Screen Archive film titled:

Edinburgh Airport, Turnhouse.

Harry wrote:

Scottish Screen Archive Film

Runway 13

"This film has some wonderfully evocative footage of aircraft departures from what was Runway 13 at Edinburgh during 1971. It's great with a decent set of PC speakers, not so hot on a laptop."

Runway Extension

"Interestingly, there is a slight extension of the runway, out toward the A9. It’s just visible in the footage from 3mins 13 sec, during the Vanguard’s pushback and turn from stand and as it heads off toward the holding point for 13.

Compare what you can see to the right of the (just visible) white threshold bars with the shot from Colin Lourie showing an aerial view of the Airport in the mid 1960s.

This shows that there was in fact an extension to the 13 undershoot (or 31 over run). You can see upon/within it, surface mounted approach lighting centre lights and in the background, the A9.

Admittedly though, it’s not conclusive from these particular shots that the road crossed the physical runway (undershoot) but it’s still very interesting. The angle of shot doesn’t help.

I would have been 12 when these shots were taken so would not have been there unaccompanied when these shots were taken, however, later on I did visit the airport alone and therefore suspect that if there was any traversing of tarmac by the A9, it would have been after 1971 that I saw it (if it ever did of course). Curiouser and curiouser."

Harry Devine, Lanark, Lanarkshire, Scotland: January 10, 2012

Recollections

John Yule

Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland

Thank you to John Yule who wrote:

A9 and Runway

"Regarding the various comments relating to the A9 and the runway at Turnhouse, if you check back, I think you'll find the reason why the road was closed whenever a plane landed.

Earlier Accident

"It was due to an earlier accident in which a B.E.A. Viscount from London overshot the end of the runway. It ended up with its nose almost in the River Almond.

Fortunately nobody was hurt, but they then installed safety nets and at the same time barriers to close the road."

Road Re-alignment

"The road was never re-aligned, and did not initially cross the runway. it was only the aeroplane that crossed the road. Then, for safety reasons, the road was closed whenever aircraft were landing.

Later, the runway was lengthened and then it did cross the road."

John Yule, Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland: December 11, 2013

Recollections

John Yule

Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland

Thank you to John Yule for writing again.

John added:

A9 and Runway

"I was born and brought up in Edinburgh and worked in Leith. Following the purchase of warehousing in Grangemouth, I travelled the A9 daily.

The reason I have a little knowledge of the runway is that the airport was closed for a period in 1959 and we used to go to the terminal building for dinner dances on a Saturday evening

It was during this time that they were re-surfacing the runway. That's when the runway was extended to cross the road, and when they installed traffic control on the A9."

Accidents

"Edinburgh Airport had two accidents, virtually on the same day:

- the first, I think, was the Viscount overshoot ending almost in the river.

- the second concerned a Ferranti test bed aircraft which came down in the fields at the back of Juniper Green where Baberton Mains now stands. I know that for fact as my in-laws' house overlooked the scene.

At the end of the runway they installed a 'net' similar to the type used on aircraft carriers to prevent planes from falling into the sea, in order to prevent another overshoot!"

John Yule, Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland: December 12, 2013

Recollections

18.

Laurie Thompson

Chipping Sodbury, Gloucestershire, England

Thank you to Laurie Thompson for sending me the message below, prompted by Bryan Gourlay's Recollections 6 and 7 above.

Laurie wrote:

Late Night London-to-Edinburgh

BEA Vanguard Flight

"I used to take this flight quite a bit in the mid-1960's. I and my friends referred to it as 'The Late Night Extra', which I think was the name of a radio programme at the time.

I remember that the Vanguard (which I was very fond of, incidentally, as it was the first type of aircraft I ever flew on, and I liked the sound of its four Rolls Royce Tyne engines) usually had the First Class section's curtains drawn, and that section stuffed with full Royal Mail sacks.

I think BEA (in addition to British Railways) had a Royal Mail contract to carry the mails at that time."

High Winds at Turnhouse

"I also remember a white-knuckle London-Edinburgh flight, this time on a daytime Comet flight. (This was possibly due to unserviceability of a Vanguard I can't remember.)

On arrival at a very windy Edinburgh, we orbited the city slowly with the engines throttled right back, presumably getting a wind-state update from the airport tower, then, lining us up for the airport, the pilot gunned up the engines and we accelerated into a very pronounced crabbing descent towards our designated runway.

I remember being astonished that, looking out of my window, I could actually see the airport ahead of us. Before touchdown, however, the pilot obviously didn't like the way things were shaping up, so it was straight into an overshoot back out over the Forth, back in over the city again, before making a determined and steady (but still crabbing!) powered descent and a bumpy landing.

The tension in the cabin was almost tangible, but I don't remember any round of applause that seems to accompany hard landings nowadays."

BEA's West London Air Terminal

"For me, living across Kensington Gardens in Bayswater, BEA's West London Air Terminal at Cromwell Road was really convenient, involving a trip of only four Circle Line tube stops.

I also remember the Routemaster double deckers with their luggage trailers, which seemed like a good, low-cost solution to the problem of getting large numbers of people and their luggage from the centre of London directly to their Departure Terminal door at Heathrow

(Incidentally, for those of a nostalgic frame of mind, it's still possible to buy a die cast model of one of those buses and its trailer. Google "Exclusive First Editions 36201, 36202 or 36203, depending which livery era is your favourite)."

Laurie Thompson, Chipping Sodbury, Gloucestershire, England: June 10, 2014

Recollections

19.

Robert Edminson

Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland

Thank you to Robert Edminson, who lived at Colinton from 1953 to 1961, for telling me:

Edinburgh Flying Club

"In those days, my father was keen on flying and was a member of the Edinburgh Flying Club. I got to know a few people there, but I cannot remember Colin Lourie (Recollections 13 above) who took a lot of photos at the time including the Percival Prentice G-APIT which my father flew.

I do remember pedaling my pedal car down the runway aged about 5 so that would have been 1958.

There is mention above of a pilot coming in almost sideways to defeat the crosswind. I strongly suspect that was John Welford who did that when my father was a passenger in a Vanguard and had been allowed to stay in the cockpit as he knew John."

Air Raid - 1939

"There was a Luftwaffe Raid 16 Oct 1939. This was not on the Forth Bridge which many say it was. They were after HMS Southampton and some destroyers.

My grandmother watched the raid from her lounge window. My father, who was at school then, was furious that he was stuck in an air raid shelter."

Robert Edminson, Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland: November 17, 2014

Recollections

20.

Ray Melville

Rosyth, Fife, Scotland

Thank you to Ray Melville who wrote:

Road and Runway

"From memory, the road did not cross the runway. It was always outside the perimeter fence.

I remember the nets and a gravel drag being installed. At the time, this was supposedly a safety feature to allow Blackburn Buccaneers to land at RAF Turnhouse. This may or may not be factual, but it was the talk at the time in the Edinburgh Flying Club."

Edinburgh Flying Club

"My parents were social members of Edinburgh Flying Club. The only name I can recall there is Bob Drummond, one of the instructors. I had a spin in the De Havilland Chipmunk in the early-1960s."

Viscounts, Vanguards, Tridents

"I also remember watching the Viscounts and Vanguards, and latterly the Tridents, crabbing in to the runway over the Maybury, only straightening up at the last seconds before they touched down."

Ray Melville, Rosyth, Fife, Scotland: December 22, 2014