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Holyrood Industry |
Holyrood District and Calton Hill
Photo taken when? What is the large chimney on the left?
© John Martin, Edinburgh Photographer not known
Holyrood District and Calton Hill
Photo taken December 2010
© Peter Stubbs peter.stubbs@edinphoto.org.uk Photo taken: December 24, 2010
Holyrood District
North Back of Canongate is now Calton Road. South Back of Canongate is now Holyrood Road.
Bartholemew map revised 1891, based on Ordnance Survey maps surveyed 1876-77
© Reproduced by permission of the Trustees of the National Library of Scotland.
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Questions John Martin Edinburgh |
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Thank you to John Martin for sending this interesting photo to me. It looks to the NW from the lower slopes of Arthur's seat, by the Radical Road, in Holyrood Park This view looks down on the Holyrood district at the foot of what is now Holyrood Road and out towards the monuments on Calton Hill. John wrote: |
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Photo 1 Looking towards Calton Hill "I am trying to identify the very large chimney on the left of the picture. I was told that it was part of the gas works off New Street / Calton Road, but the chimney looks too far down the Royal mile for this. Also, the chimney has two different shades and looks like two separate chimneys, one behind the other, but it's difficult to say." Breweries "I am conducting research into Edinburgh's old breweries and used to work for Scottish & Newcastle. This photo shows Abbey Brewery, which became part of Scottish & Newcastle and today is where the Scottish Parliament is. In the foreground is Park Stores and now Dynamic Earth." Questions "I'd appreciate it If there is anything more that you can tell me about this photo. In particular, can anybody: - give me an estimate of when the photo was taken OR - tell me anything about the large chimney in this photo?." John Martin, Edinburgh: July 12, 2012 |
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Replies |
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1. |
Peter Stubbs |
- Early Photo - Recent Photo - Map |
2. |
John Martin |
- Date of the Photo? - One Chimney or Two? |
3. |
Brian Rafferty |
- Holyrood Brewery |
4. |
Patrick Lindsay |
- Gas Works Chimney |
5. |
John Martin |
- Gas Works Chimney and - Holyrood Brewery Chimney? |
6. |
John Dickson |
- View from Calton Hill, 1847 |
7. |
Patrick Lindsay |
- Was alignment intended? |
8. |
- The Tall Chimney |
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9. |
Mike Melrose |
- The Tall Chimney - More Photos |
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Reply 1. Peter Stubbs Edinburgh |
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I don't know the date of John's photo, so I hope others will be able to make suggestions. However, I do have a few observations on the photo. See below. |
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Photo 1 Skyline "I believe that the buildings on the skyline in this photo are (from left to right) are: - North British Hotel (now Balmoral Hotel) on the corner of Princes Street and North Bridge. - Prison Governor's House, Waterloo Place. - Dugald Stewart Monument on Calton Hill. - Nelson Monument on Calton Hill. - National Monument on Calton Hill. Photo 2 Our Dynamic Earth "The large building in the foreground on the left, with stone walls and corner turret can be seen in both photos. In Photo 2 it has become Our Dynamic Earth, a science exhibition centre created to celebrate the Millennium and still operating. The Scotsman Offices "To the left of this building in the early photo was a gas holder. This has since been removed and The Scotsman Offices have been built on the site." The Scottish Parliament "Abbey Brewery, mentioned by John above, has now been demolished and replaced by The Scottish Parliament, as can be seen in Photo 2." Map - 1891 "The approximate position of the tall chimney can be seen in this map. It was across the road from the old gasometer. i.e. on the other side of South Back of Cowgate - or as it is now, across the road from the Scotsman Offices. i.e. on the other side of Holyrood Road. The site would have been Holyrood Glass Works if the 'Holyrood Glass Works name on the 1891 map referred to all the buildings in South Back of Cowgate between Reid's Close and Butt's Close. It looks to me as if the upper part of this chimney in Photo 1 is some sort of printing error, rather than being a second chimney, but others may have different views about this." Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: July 12, 2012 |
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Reply 2. John Martin Edinburgh |
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John Martin, who sent me the photo above replied: |
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Date "I think the date of the photo is about 1870, but that's just my estimate." Chimney "Do you think the chimney is one half-hidden below the other." John Martin, Edinburgh: July 13, 2012 |
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More Photos Perhaps somebody will find more photos of the area taken in the 19th century, then they might be able to comment on both the points that John mentions above. Please email me if you know of any more old photos of the area. Thank you. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: July 13 2012 |
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Reply 3. James Rafferty Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland |
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Thank you to James Rafferty for posting a reply in the EdinPhoto guestbook, offering to provide some information for John's research into the Edinburgh breweries. James wrote: |
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Holyrood Brewery "I cant help with questions about the photo, but I worked in the Holyrood Brewery from 1959 until just before it closed, so if i can be of any help to John I would be more than happy."
James Rafferty, Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland: |
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Holyrood Brewery I've given John Martin's email address to James Rafferty. So now James should be able to send a message direct to John. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: July 13 2012 |
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Reply 4. Patrick Lindsay Perth, Western Australia, Australia |
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Location of the Chimney I believe that the location of the tall chimney has now been solved***. It appears to have been in the centre of the gas works in New Street - to the north of Canongate - further from the camera than I had expected. This chimney was over 300 ft high. It appears in the top-left quarter of the Map - 1891 above. Here is an enlargement of that part of the map, showing the chimney in the centre of the picture: Edinburgh Gas Works
Bartholemew map revised 1891, based on Ordnance Survey maps surveyed 1876-77 © Reproduced by permission of the Trustees of the National Library of Scotland. Acknowledgement: Patrick Lindsay, Perth, Western Australia, Australia, formerly Captain's Road and Logie Green Road, Edinburgh. Message posted in EdinPhoto Guestbook, July 15, 2012. *** UPDATE: But see also, Reply 5 below |
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Why is the upper part of the Chimney printed Lighter? I cannot explain why the upper part of the chimney has been printed lighter than the lower part. A common adjustment made for early prints was to give more exposure to the part of a print above the skyline in order to bring out more detail in the clouds, but this would result in the part of the chimney above the skyline looking darker on the print, not lighter. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: July 15, 2012. |
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Reply 5. John Martin Edinburgh |
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John Martin, who sent me the photo above replied: |
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Two Chimneys? "I have being giving this subject some more thought and I am going back to my original thought, that this photo could be two chimneys, one behind the other. The Map The gas works chimney is shown on the map, I think because it was a landmark due to its height, and I imagine for safety reasons due to the nature of the works. I drew a line on the map between where the picture was taken and and the gas works chimney and it crosses over Holyrood Brewery and very close to the Glass works. Other Photos This made me conduct a review of my other photos of Holyrood Brewery. I have one that shows an ariel view, taken from the NW side of the brewery, looking towards Holyrood Park. I'm not sure when this photo was taken. It's a pity it doesn't also show the gas works! On this picture ** there are at least four chimneys. They are: - Abbey Brewery - J&J Morison Brewery - Holyrood Brewery, where I used to work. - near the gasometers on Holyrood Road. Conclusion So I think that the original photo at the top of this page may be showing the Holyrood Brewery chimney partially hiding the much taller Gas Works chimney. I dismissed this view to begin with as I thought that the chances are of there being two chimneys one behind the other would be such a long shot. What do you think. John Martin, Edinburgh: July 15, 2012 ** I'll add this picture to the web site if I can get copyright permission to do so. |
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Line on the Map Hi John: I agree. If you draw a line on the map: - from just left of the road junction seen in the foreground of this photo - to just left of the NB Hotel at the East End of Princes Street seen on the skyline of the photo, it does appear to pass through both the Holyrood Brewery chimney and the Edinburgh Gas Works chimney. There also appears to be some mist across the Waverley Valley in the centre of the photo, so that could explain why the Edinburgh Gas Works chimney looks lighter than the brewery chimney. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: July 16, 2012 |
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Reply 6. John Dickson Royston, Edinburgh |
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Thank you to John Dickson, Royston, Edinburgh for allowing me to reproduce this old engraving, looking down on Holyrood, with the tall gas works chimney in the foreground. - Salisbury Crags in Holyrood Park are on the left of this picture. - The Pentland Hills in Midlothian are on the skyline behind the chimney. View Looking South from Calton Hill Engraving published 1847
© Reproduced with acknowledgement to John Dickson, Royston, Edinburgh This engraving comes from one of John's books: "The Complete View of the City and Environs from Calton Hill" The book is dated 1847. Acknowledgement: John Dickson, Royston, Edinburgh: July 18+19, 2012 |
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Reply 7. Patrick Lindsay Perth, Western Australia, Australia |
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Thank you to Patrick Lindsay for adding another comment in the EdinPhoto Guestbook. Patrick wrote: |
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Was the Alignment of the Chimneys in this Photo Intended "Folks: it is quite possible this photo of the gas/glass works chimneys was taken deliberately with that interesting alignment. As I suspect it may have been of a surprise view on a walk up the path on the side of Salisbury Crags. What do we think?" Acknowledgement: Patrick Lindsay, Perth, Western Australia, Australia, formerly Captain's Road and Logie Green Road, Edinburgh. Message posted in EdinPhoto Guestbook, July 20, 2012. |
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The Alignment may well have been Intended Yes. There is a constantly changing view as you walk up the Radical Road and look down on Holyrood. It would not have been difficult to find the spot where the two chimneys lined up and take the photo from there, so that may well have been what was done. In fact, it now seems that the nearest chimney belonged to Holyrood Brewery beside the glass works, and not to the glass works. See Reply 5 above. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: July 15, 2012. |
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Reply 8. Sam Roberts London, England + Houston, Texas |
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Thank you to Sam Roberts who wrote: |
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The Tall Chimney "The tall chimney in the photo above can also be seen in Samuel Bough's painting of the Royal Volunteer Review, 1860, Holyrood Park, 1860. Here is a link*** to a page on the National Galleries of Scotland web site that displays Bough's Royal Volunteer Review, 1860 painting." Sam Roberts, London, England + Houston, Texas: August 14, 2014 |
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Royal Volunteer Review Painting *** After clicking on this link, please scroll down the page, then click on the last of the thumbnail images to enlarge it and see a colourful painting that includes the tall chimney at Holyrood. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: August 14, 2014 |
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Reply 9. Mike Melrose Greenbank, Edinburgh |
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Thank you to Mike Melrose who wrote: |
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The Tall Chimney "I think the tallish looking chimney was either at William Younger's Limited’s Holyrood Brewery or Morrison’s Brewery. Sadly, Younger's Brewery is no longer there at all. The Morrison’s Brewery has now been converted into residential accommodation. The tall chimney looks as if it has been lengthened cosmetically on the print,. I can’t see how a brick chimney would be that slender, built up to that height." More Photos "There are loads of photos on Scran, Capital Collections and other Edinburgh web sites that show that area from the Robert Burns monument on Regent Road and from the Crags. They could help to clarify the location as there were many breweries and maltings in that area. I've a vague recollection that I've seen a record somewhere that there was also a bleach works round about there." Mike Melrose, Greenbank: August 15, 2014 |
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Reply to Mike Melrose Hi Mike: Two Chimneys Thanks for your comments. However, I think it will probably not be necessary to do any more research on which chimney appears in this photo. There seems to be good evidence in Replies 4 and 5 above that: - what appears to be the lower part of this chimney is the chimney of Holyrood Brewery. - what appears to be the upper part of this chimney is the chimney of Edinburgh Gas Works. Gas Works himney The chimney in the painting of the Royal Volunteer Review, 1860 will be the Edinburgh Gas Works chimney. The top of that chimney appears on this painting to be a little higher than the top of the Nelson Monument on Calton Hill. That's what we would expect. - The Ordnance Survey map of 1876/77 shows that the Edinburgh Gas Works chimney stood on land about 150 ft above sea level and was 329 ft high, so its top would have been about 480 ft above sea level. - The Nelson Monument is situated near the summit of Calton Hill (340 ft above sea level) and is 105 ft high, so its top would be a little under 450 ft above sea level. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: August 16, 2014 |