Photograph taken in Edinburgh in 1960 by Robert Blomfield

Photo 14 Replies
1.	Simon Capaldi Sheriffhall, Midlothian, Scotland	Jameson Place Pilrig
2.	Peter Stubbs Sheriffhall, Midlothian, Scotland	PROBABLY NOT Jameson Place Pilrig
3.	Peter Stubbs Sheriffhall, Midlothian, Scotland	NOT Jameson Place Pilrig
4.	Neil Lawrence Fountainbridge, Edinburgh	NOT Jameson Place Pilrig
5.	Forbes Wilson near Guildford, Surrey, England	Bedford Street Stockbridge
6.	Peter Stubbs Edinburgh	NOT Bedford Street Stockbridge
7.	Terry Cox Fountainbridge, Edinburgh	Freer Street Fountainbridge
8.	Peter Stubbs Edinburgh	Bedford Street Stockbridge
9.	Bryan Gourlay Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland	Bedford Street Stockbridge
10.	Simon Capaldi Sheriffhall, Midlothian, Scotland	NOT Freer Street Fountainbridge
11.	Allan Dodds Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England	Heriot Hill Terrace Canonmills
12.	Peter Stubbs Edinburgh	NOT Heriot Hill Terrace Canonmills
13.	Neil Lawrence Fountainbridge, Edinburgh	Freer Street Fountainbridge
14.	Betty Hepburn (née Boland) Waikanae, Kapiti Coast, New Zealand	Freer Street Fountainbridge
15.	Simon Capaldi Sheriffhall, Midlothian, Scotland	Freer Street Fountainbridge
16.	John Fraser Inch, Edinburgh	NOT Jameson Place Pilrig
17.	Stuart Lyon Blackford, Edinburgh	NOT Bedford Street Stockbridge
18.	John Moyes Sheriffhall, Midlothian, Scotland	Freer Street Fountainbridge
19.	Livia Dyckhoff	Thorntree Street Leith
20.	Terry Cox Fairmilehead, Edinburgh	Freer Street Fountainbridge
21.	Peter Stubbs Edinburgh	The Discussion Continues
22.	Livia Dyckhoff	Thorntree Street Leith
23.	David Millan	Freer Street Fountainbridge
My Conclusion (based on all the above) Photo 14 was taken at Freer Street, Fountainbridge

Photo 14

Reply

Peter Stubbs

Edinburgh

Is this Jameson Place?

Unlikely

I visited Jameson Place this afternoon and compared it with Robert Blomfield's photo taken in 1960. The buildings that I saw at the west end of the street, close to its junction with Lieth Walk were built in the late 19thj century. They have stone plaques giving the dates '1895' and '1896'.

The buildings in Robert Blomfield's Photo 1 below also seem likely to be 19th century, but the style of stonework does not seem to match the buildings in Photos 14a and 14b, so I believe that Robert's photo must be of a different street.

Below is a copy of Robert's photo, followed by two photos that I took this afternoon.

Photo

14.

1960

Photo

14a.

2013

West end of the street (by junction with Leith Walk) - looking east

Photo

14b.

2013

Centre of the street - looking east

Peter Stubbs: March 17, 2013

Photo 14

Reply

Peter Stubbs

Edinburgh

Is this Jameson Place?

I took Photo 14c below near the east end of Jameson Place on 18 March, the day after taking photos 14a and 14b above.

Photo 4 shows that in Jameson Place:

- there are ribbed lintels with overhangs above the windows on the floor above the ground floor, on both sides of the street.

- many of the windows on both sides of the street are in pairs.

Neither of these features can be found on Photo 1 below, so I conclude that Photo 1 is not a photograph of Jameson Place.

Photo

14.

1960

Photo

14c.

2013

East end of the Jameson Place, near the junction with Leith Walk - looking east

Photo 14

Reply

Neil Lawrence

Fountainbridge, Edinburgh

Neil Lawrence agrees that this photo is not Jameson Place

Neil wrote:

Not Jameson Place

"I can't agree that this photo was taken in Jameson Place. The banding of stones along the front of the tenements doesn't match that street.

I'm not sure where it actually is yet, but I'm working on it."

Neil Lawrence, Fountainbridge, Edinburgh: March 19, 2013

I agree, Neil. I think it would be safe to assume that the 1960 photo was not taken in Jameson Place.

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: March 24, 2013

Photo 14

Reply

Forbes Wilson

near Guildford, Surrey, England

Thank you to Forbes Wilson who wrote:

Not Jameson Place

"This photo bears a striking similarity to Bedford Street in Stockbridge."

Forbes Wilson, near Guildford, Surrey, England: March 23, 2012

Comment in response to

Reply

Thank you to Forbes Wilson for also sending me a photograph of Bedford Street, Stockbridge, to compare with Robert Blomfield's 1960 photo.

I'll add the picture that Forbes sent to the EdinPhoto web site if I can get copyright permission to add it to the site. However, my first impression on seeing the photo that Forbes sent to me is that the buildings at the end of the street in his photo don't match the buildings at the end of the street in the 1960 photo.

I believe that Photo 10 is of Bedford Street, Stockbridge.

Photo 10

However, evidence seems to be growing in support of the argument that Photo 14 is of Freer Street, Fountainbridge.

Photo 10

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh, April 4, 2013

Photo 14

Reply

Peter Stubbs

Edinburgh

Not Bedford Street

After reading the comments from Forbes Wilson in his 'Reply 5' above, I photographed Bedford Street in March 2013 (14d below). However, I see no evidence of it being the same street as in the 1960 photo (14 below).

- Photo 14 shows tenements on both sides of the street..

- Photo 14d shows tenements on just one side of the street and newer housing on the other side, but:

- In Photo 14b, there are gardens between the tenements and the street.

- The stonework and windows of the tenements appear to be different in the Photos 14 and 14d.

My conclusion: The street in the 1960s photo is NOT Bedford Street.

Photo

14.

1960

Is this a photo of Bedford Street, Stockbridge? I think 'No'.

See my comments about photos 14 and 14d above.

Photo

14d.

2013

Looking to the south up Bedford Street, Stockbridge

UPDATE

Please see Reply 8 below

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: March 27, 2013

Photo 14

Reply

Terry Cox

Fairmilehead, Edinburgh

Thank you to Terry Cox who wrote:

Is it Freer Street?

"I'm waiting to be shot down in flames, but this photo looks a bit like Freer Street, where Asa Wass' office used to be, just off Fountainbridge.

I can't find any pictures of Freer Street, and it's been gone for about 40 odd years, so I'm relying on memory. Someone might be able to prove (or disprove) this, and there are probably some of your correspondents who will know Freer Street better than I do, so I only punt it as a possibility."

Terry Cox, Fairmilehead, Edinburgh: March 27, 2013

Photo 14

Reply

Peter Stubbs

Edinburgh

Bedford Street?

Perhaps I was too hasty in ruling out the possibility of this street being Bedford Street.

Having found another photo of Bedford Street, taken in the early-1960s, already on the EdinPhoto web site (which I've numbered 14e below), I've reached the conclusion that:

a) The style of the tenements on the right-hand side of Photo 14 is a good match for those on the right-hand side of 14e.

b) There is no match in Photo 14 for the house with the gable in Photo 14e, but perhaps Photo 14 was taken from closer to the far end of the street.

c) The building at the far end of the street still puzzles me. There appears to be a different building there in all three photos!

c) The style of the tenements in Photo 14 is a good match for those on the in 14f. The buildings in the background of these two photos also appear to match.

d) Photo 14d looks up Bedford Street, but I believe that the tenements on BOTH sides of Bedford Street must have been demolished. What we are seeing on the right-hand side of this picture 14d is the the tenements in Dean Park Street and their back gardens.

Conclusion

Photo 14 may well be of Bedford Street.

But, what is the building at the end of the street in this photo?

In his reply about Photo 10 (numbered 14f below) Neil Lawrence mentions that he has been able to match these buildings against a recent Google Streetview. I'll see if I can discover more about this Streetview from Neil.

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: March 30, 2013

Photo

14.

1960

Where is it?

See my comments about photos 14, 14e and 14d above.

Photo

14e.

Early 1960s

Bedford Street, Stockbridge, View from Dean Park Street End

Photo

14f.

Children playing and washing hanging out in a Play Street - 1964
This is Photo 10 of Robert Blomfield's 1960s photos recently added to the EdinPhoto web site.
It was identified by Neil Lawrence as being a photo of Bedford Street.

Photo

14d.

2013

Looking to the south up Bedford Street, Stockbridge

Update to

Reply

Photo 14

The building at the end of this street in Photo 14 looks industrial to me, with its large squarish windows and large doorway facing the end of the street. Can anybody tell me if there was once some industry there?

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: March 30, 2013

Photo 14

Reply

Bryan Gourlay

Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Thank you to Bryan Gourlay for responding to my comments in 'Reply 8' above.

Bryan wrote:

Bedford Street

All Tenements Now Demolished

"I'm sure you are right saying the tenements on both sides of Bedford Street have been demolished.

My great, great grandparents lived in Bedford Street in the 1850s and my great grandfather was born nearby in Allan Street which has also been knocked down apart from a few yards close to Raeburn Place.

Here is a Google Earth picture in which you can see a recent view of Bedford Street:

Google Earth View

Bedford Street, Stockbridge is centre-left in this view

© Google Earth web site, with acknowledgement to Bryan Gourlay
Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland for providing a copy of the photo.

Today's Bedford Street is as you describe it in 14d, with the back gardens of Dean Park Street on one side and newish buildings on the other."

Bryan Gourlay, Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland: March 28, 2013

In the photo above, Dean Park Street and Bedford Street are the two streets running vertically through the picture, above the street names. (I got a new version of Photoshop today and have still to learn how to draw arrows on maps!)

The alignment of Bedford Street when it had tenements on either side was more diagonal, as the map below shows. Dean Park Street leads vertically down from the top of this map. When travelling down Dean Park Street, Bedford Street is the first street on the left (i.e. towards the top-right corner of the map.

1925 Map

Bedford Street, Stockbridge is just to the right of the centre at the top of this map.

© Peter Stubbs Please contact peter.stubbs@edinphoto.org.uk for permission to reproduce

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: March 29, 2012

Photo 14

Reply

10.

Simon Capaldi

Sheriffhall, Midlothian, Scotland

Thank you to Simon Capaldi for for writing again.

Simon wrote:

Not Freer Street?

"I would suggest that this photo is definitely not Freer Street. Freer Street had a canal at the end and the houses were two-stories tall."

Simon Capaldi, Sheriffhall, Midlothian, Scotland: March 28, 2013

Not Freer Street?

Hi Simon: I don't remember Freer Street myself. However there are others who remember it and have told me about it. They remember the tenements being more than two stories high.

In 'Recollections 14' below, I refer to the book: "Water Under The Bridge". There is a copy of a painting of Freer Street on the front of that book. It also shows the tenements in Freer Street to be several (4) stories high.

If photo 14 is of Freer Street, it may be looking to the north down DFreer Street to the main road, Fountainbridge. i.e. the photographer may have had his back to the canal when he took Photo 14.

Photo 14

Reply

12.

Peter Stubbs

Edinburgh

Here are:

- Photo 14, which we are trying to identify, followed by

- Photo 14g, a picture of the Coronation Party in Heriot Hill Terrace that Allan Dodds mentions in 'Reply 11' above.

- Photo 14h, which I took in Heriot Hill Terrace on

I cannot see enough detail in the background of Photo 14g to decide whether or this looks like same street as is in Photo 14. However, the back of a road sign can be seen near the right-hand side of Photo 14g which looks as if it may be 'Play Street' road sign seen in Photo 14.

There is a Incidentally, I think I recall seeing a 'Play Street' road sign near the Rodney Street end of Heriot Hill Terrace a few years ago, but it has now been taken away.

Conclusion

The style of buildings in Photos 14 and 14h appear to be different. The positions of the windows and lintels in the two photos do not match. So Photo 14 appears NOT to be Heriot Hill Terrace.

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: March 30, 2013

Photo

14.

1960 - Where is it?

Photo

14g.

1953 - Heriot Hill Terrace

Looking to the west towards The Ritz cinema in Rodney Street.

Photo

14.

(again)

1960 - Where is it?

Photo

14h.

2013 - Heriot Hill Terrace

View looking east from Rodney Street.

Photo 14

Reply

13.

Neil Lawrence

Fountainbridge, Edinburgh

Neil Lawrence wrote:

Photo

14.

Neil wrote:

Freer Street

Fountainbridge

"This photo could be Freer Street because these features.:

- The buildings at the end of the road

- The jutting out building on the left and

- Tenements, longer on the right-hand side

All these features match buildings that I have seen that were next to the canal."

Neil Lawrence, Fountainbridge, Edinburgh: March 28, 2013

Map

1894

Thank you to Neil Lawrence for sending me this extract from a large-scale map of the area around Freer Street:

© Ordnance Survey 1:500 Town Plan of 1894 is reproduced with acknowledgement to Neil Lawrence, Fountainbridge, Edinburgh

Reply

14.

Betty Hepburn (née Boland)

Waikanae, Kapiti Coast, New Zealand

Thank you to Betty Hepburn who wrote

Freer Street?

"Like Terry Cox, my hubby, Peter, thinks this is of Freer Street, Fountainbridge. Peter's Granny Hepburn lived there. I may be wrong, but Peter's mother, Annie Hepburn (née Campbell) and his Aunt Begbie (née Campbell) also believe that the photo would have been taken in Freer Street."

We have a copy off the Book "Water Under The Bridge". On the front cover, there is an artist's drawing which shows a view of Freer Street taken from the bottom of the street.

Freer Street Church Hall was there. Hubby attended Sunday School there. The book is very interesting. It has lots off wee stories and photos donated from the locals."

Betty Hepburn (née Boland), Waikanae, Kapiti Coast, New Zealand: March 17, 2012

Painting - 1953

I also have a copy of the book the book, "Water Under The Bridge". The book has a cover illustration is of a painting by George Brown titled:

"The Queen's Visit to Freer Street, 1953".

The scene in this painting looks to the north down Freer Street to the main road, Fountainbridge. The Royal horses and coaches are passing along Fountainbridge past the end of Freer Street.

The housing in George Brown's painting looks to me to be a good match for Photo 14 above. However:

- the painting looks to the north along Freer Street towards the main road, Fountainbridge, but

- as the map sent by Neil Lawrence in 'Reply 13' above shows, the photo looks to the south along Freer Street, towards the canal.

I'll add a copy of this painting to the EdinPhoto web site if I am able to contact the artist and get his permission to add it to the web site.

Freer Street

My conclusion at this stage is that it seems very likely to me that the scene in Photo 14 is Freer Street.

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: March 31, 2013

Photo 14

Reply

15.

Simon Capaldi

Sheriffhall, Midlothian, Scotland

Thank you to Simon Capaldi for writing again, following up the comments he left in his 'Reply 10' above.

Simon wrote:

Freer Street?

"I must do an 'about turn'.

My friend confirms that this photo is of Freer Street, looking south:

He was born there in 1932 at No. 3.

The mission hall served as a nursery during the week and as a Sunday School on Sundays. The steps on the left led to a terrace next to the canal. I think the late 1800's map has the hall slightly off centre."

Simon Capaldi, Sheriffhall, Midlothian, Scotland: March 28, 2013

Photo 14

Reply

16.

John Fraser

Inch, Edinburgh

Thank you to John Fraser for sending me a little information about Jameson Place and for confirming, as others have done above, that this photo is not of Jameson Place.

John wrote:

Not Jameson Place

"This photo is definitely not Jameson Place."

"Although it looks similar:

- at the end of the street in Jameson Place was John Gibson and Son Ltd. Motor Engineers. It was originally an open yard, but had been roofed over. I worked there 1951 to 1965, but moved to their new building in Lorne Street.

- At the end of the street at Leith Walk was a Post office on one corner and a pub on the other.

- Lorne Street Primary school playground was on the left hand side looking East.

John Fraser, Inch, Edinburgh: 9 May 2013

Not Jameson Place

Agreed, John. the photo is not of Jameson Place, Pilrig.

It is of Freer Street, Tollcross.

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: May 9, 2013

Photo 14

Reply

17.

Stuart Lyon

Blackford, Edinburgh

Thank you to Stuart Lyon who wrote:

Not Bedford Street

"I just thought I would put my tuppence worth in on this debate.

My Granny lived in Bedford Street and I spent a lot of time there in the 1950s. I cannot recall any building in Bedford Street that jutted out such as the one in the picture under discussion.

Stuart Lyon, Blackford, Edinburgh: 5 April 2013 (with apologies to Stuart for
having taking a long time to add his comments above to the EdinPhoto web site

Not Bedford Street

Agreed, Stuart. the photo is not of Bedford Street, Stockbridge.

It is of Freer Street, Tollcross.

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: May 10, 2013

Photo 14

Reply

18.

John Moyes

Thank you to Stuart Lyon who wrote:

Freer Street

"The photograph is definitely Freer Street and it was taken from the East side of the Street. The building in the distance is the Uniroyal Tyre Factory."

Freer Street Terrace

"Freer Street was a cul de sac, but running off it was Freer Street Terrace. That was on the East side of the Street (left hand side as you look at the photograph), right at the very bottom of the Street with the Union Canal immediately behind it. It was accessed by two short flights of steps and there were two tenements in the Terrace."

The Tenements

"At the time that the photograph was taken I worked in the National Assistance Board and Freer Street and Freer Street Terrace were part of my territory. I visited there almost every day so I knew it very well indeed.. The tenements in the Street, and even more so the Terrace, were in very bad condition. It was necessary to be very careful when going to any of the houses in the Terrace.

The wooden stairway was almost completely rotten and keeping very close to the wall was the only comparatively safe way up.

Freer Street itself was not quite so bad, but still far from pleasant. Most of the houses in the tenements were 'Room and kitchen' (some had two rooms). Even in the 1960s few had running hot water and there were almost no baths, only WCs."

The Residents

"The people living in Freer Street and Freer Street Terrace were in three broad groups:

- A few were working families (most of the men worked in the Uniroyal factory).

- A much larger number were pensioners who had lived there mostly for a long time.

- The third group were more transitory residents and most of them were long-term unemployed; a few were single parents.

People generally moved into Freer Street and Terrace because there were very few other places for them to go.

As an aside, many of them moved quite frequently between Freer Street and Bedford Street and Dean Street in Stockbridge."

Bedford Street

Some Houses in Good Repair

"I shouldn’t leave you with the impression that all the houses in Freer Street were dire. Many were well kept and comfortably furnished, but the staircases and the various common areas were all in poor shape.

Those who flitted in and out had by far the worst of it. Their houses were almost all in bad repair and squalid by any standards. They were usually let 'furnished', something of an exaggeration."

John Moyes: September 17, 2014

Photo 14

Reply

19.

Livia Dyckhoff

Edinburgh

Thank you to Livia Dyckhoff who wrote:

Thorntree Street

"I am positive that this is not Freer Street, but the cul-de-sac end of Thorntree Street. (I used to live down the far end on the right hand side from 1998 until last year.) - EH6 8PU.

- This Google Street View shows a 'Play Street' sign, still up.

- In the far distance, it looks like the bingo hall.

- Also, there used to be an old warehouse-like building. It can be sen in the picture above.

- The line of the windows, including stepping down a bit as you go down the street, looks like a match

- Even the painted shop corner at the extreme left of the picture matches up."

Livia Dyckhoff, Edinburgh: September 29, 2014

Photo 14

Reply

Peter Stubbs

Edinburgh

Where is it?

The Discussion Continues

"I thought that discussion of this photo had probably come to an end in May 2013, but it has started up again now!

So far, 20 replies have been received in support of and against a number of streets. See the results below in which I've listed the streets in the order that they were suggested and allocated SCORES = Number of 'YES's LESS Number of 'NO's ***

- Jameson Place Pilrig	YES 1	NO 4	SCORE - 3
- Bedford Street Stockbridge	YES 3	NO 2	SCORE +1
- Freer Street Fountainbridge	YES 7	NO 1	SCORE +6
- Heriot Hill Terrace Canonmills	YES 1	NO 1	SCORE 0
- Thorntree Street Leith	YES 1	NO 1	SCORE 0

Freer Street has come out as the clear favourite, but not everybody agrees. See Reply 19 above."

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: October 3, 2014

*** The results above have now been updated to include Reply 22 below.

Photo 14

Reply

22.

Livia Dyckhoff

Edinburgh

Thank you to Livia Dyckhoff for writing again telling me of correspondence on this City Cycling Edinburgh forum page:

Not Thorntree Street

BUT

Freer Street

"Regular contributor, kaputnik makes the following comments, supporting his view that the photo above is of Freer Street, not Thorntree Street. (I've added my own comments are in brackets.)

- The street in this photo appears to run downhill at a faster rate than Thorntree Street (based on how frequently the stretcher courses in each block drop a level).

- The building at the end matches closely with the general profile and look of the Castle Mills rubber works, which would have been at the end of Freer Street at this time. At the end of Thorntree Street was the Capitol Cinema (now Mecca bingo). It's profile would have been the same in the old photo as it is now, but I don't think it matches.

- There was a low building at the end of Freer Street which jutted out slightly, this can be corroborated on the maps. No such building existed on Thorntree Street, a back wall of a yard was where the new houses are now, but they followed the line of the tenements. Also, there was a gap on the left between the tenements and the factory where there was a mission hall.

- The number of blocks of tenements match the map for Freer Street, as does the left hand being shorter than the right hand."

Livia Dyckhoff, Edinburgh: October 3, 2014

Photo 14

Reply

23.

David Millan

Thank you to David Millan for writing about this photo.

David wrote:

Freer Street

Sweetie Shop

"This photo is, without doubt, Freer Street.

I was born in 169 Fountainbridge in 1945, and spent many evenings of my childhood standing under the lamppost on the right of the picture where a wee sweetie shop was. You can see the shop window clearly."

The End of the Street

"The building at the end of the street is North British Rubber Mill. The entrance there was never used to my knowledge."

At the end, to the left of the picture, there was the passage way to Freer Street Terrace. This was described by Harold Wilson as “the worst slum in Europe” at the time of his visit.

To the right at the end was St Cuthbert’s Church Mission. I went to the Sunday School there."

Another Photo

"There is a photograph in the archives of the Central Library of Freer Street, taken from the other end of the street. In that, the telephone exchange building on the corner of Gardners Crescent & Fountainbridge can be clearly seen.

I wonder if it was taken by the same photographer at the same time. The Archive people didn’t know anything about it until I identified the location for them."

David Millan: December 13, 2014

Hi David:

Thanks for your comments.

Yes, I'm convinced that this photo is of Freer Street.

If I update the table in Reply 21 above to include the comments in Replies 22 and 23 and my own views, the results become:*

- Jameson Place Pilrig	SCORE - 3
- Bedford Street Stockbridge	SCORE +1
- Freer Street Fountainbridge	SCORE +9
- Heriot Hill Terrace Canonmills	SCORE 0
- Thorntree Street Leith	SCORE 0

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh, December 14, 2014