Dumbiedykes Survey Photograph - 1959

Recollections and some discussions about the backgreen of Lower Viewcraig Row or Upper Viewcraig Row ©
1.	Tony (Scotty) Henderson Canada	- It's Lower Viewcraig Row back green
2.	John (Iain) McEvoy Craigentinny, Edinburgh	- No, it's Upper Viewcraig Row back green
3.	Tony (Scotty) Henderson Canada	- It's Lower Viewcraig Row back green
4.	Bob Hunter Edinburgh	- No, it's Upper Viewcraig Row back green
5.	Jim Irvine Edinburgh	- Back Green - Schools
6.	Jan Birnie Muskoka, Gravenhurst, Ontario, Canada	- Family - Nip - It's Upper Viewcraig Row back green
7.	Jan Birnie Muskoka, Gravenhurst, Ontario, Canada	- Families
8.	Charlie MacDonald Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland	- It's Lower Viewcraig Row back green
9.	Tony (Scotty) Henderson Canada	- It's Lower Viewcraig Row back green
10.	Douglas Thomson East Calder, West Lothian, Scotland	- It's Upper Viewcraig Row back green - Bonfire Night - Demolition - Yardley's Sweet Shops - Thanks
11.	Bill Cockburn Comely Bank, Edinburgh	- It's Upper Viewcraig Row back green
12.	Rob Barclay London, England	- It's Upper Viewcraig Row back green
13.	Mike Sweeney Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland	- It's Upper Viewcraig Row back green - Back Green - Our Window - No.6
14.	David Johnstone London, England	- Lower Viewcraig Row - The Wall - Question

Question

Sheila Sutherland Doak

Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Sheila Sutherland Doak, now living in Victoria, British Columbia, wrote:

Is anything known of

Lizzie Tait

"My father was born out of wedlock and we have just obtained documents that indicate our natural grandmother’s name was Elizabeth (Lizzie) Tait and that she lived at 23 Upper View, Craig Row and was a chemist’s assistant."

Sheila Sutherland Doak, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada: August 7, 2006

Do you know anything about Lizzie Tait, or do you have any information that you would like to share with Sheila Doak? If so, please e-mail me so that I can pass it on to her. Thank you. - Peter Stubbs

Answer

Bill Cameron

Thank you to Bill Cameron who sent the message below.

I have passed Bill's e-mail address on to Sheila so that he can contact him.

Bill wrote:

Lizzie Tait
was one of my ancestors

"I found your website in the context of researching my family history.

I have only today discovered that my maternal ancestors lived at 23 Upper Viewcraig Row for a number of years at the end of the 1800's and beginning of 1900's.

My great great grandfather, William Tait lived at that address at the time of the Census in 1891 & 1901 with his wife 'Eliza' (born in 1854/5) and their (approximately 10) children, one of whom appears to have been called 'Eliza', born in 1894/5. (and at the time of the 1881 Census, she lived at 9 Lower Viewcraig Row).

None of the children is called 'Elizabeth' on either Census, but I guess Eliza is close, and I think it must be the same family. In that case, I think Sheila & I must be very distantly related.

I have done a fairly detailed study of the Tait family, going back to the 1700's, and am happy to share this with Sheila if she wishes to contact me via e mail."

Bill Cameron: April 9+10, 2007

Recollections

Scottie Henderson

Canada

Scottie Henderson, now living in Canada, wrote:

Back Green - It is Lower Viewcraig Row

"This is really the picture of the back green to Lower Viewcraig Row (not Upper Viewcraig Row).

I used to sometimes climb out of our kitchen window and play in it, and we used to climb the end wall into the back green at Prospect Place."

Scottie Henderson, Canada: April 11 + 15, 2007

Recollections

John (Iain) McEvoy

Craigentinny, Edinburgh

Iain McEvoy replied:

Back Green - It is Upper Viewcraig Row

"The picture is of the back green to Upper Viewcraig Row.

We lived there as a family for around 20 years and this is definitely the place I played in for quite a few years.

I can understand the confusion because beyond the wall at the far end, there was another patch of green and at the far end of that there was a similar wall which I suspect was the one that Scotty remembered.

Ah happy times!!"

John (Iain) McEvoy, Craigentinny, Edinburgh: December 19, 2008

Recollections

Scottie Henderson

Canada

Thank you to Scottie Henderson for leaving a message in the EdinPhoto Guest Book.

Scottie wrote

"I have just read John (Iain) McEvoy's letter on the green of Upper Viewcraig Row and I can assure him it was the back green of Lower Viewcraig Row.

As I said, I used to climb out the Kitchen window to play there and the wall at the end if. You climbed up it came out at 5 Prospect Place.

I lived there from 1933 to 1954."

Scottie Henderson, Canada: December 25, 2008

The Voting is in favour of Upper Viewcraig Row

There seems to be a vote of 2:1 in favour of this photo being of the back green at Upper Viewcraig Row. The photographer and Iain McEvoy both identify it as that, but Scottie Henderson believes that it is the back green of Lower Viewcraig Row. Perhaps somebody else will comment.

Peter Stubbs: December 25, 2008

Recollections

Bob Hunter

Edinburgh

Thank you to Bob Hunter who wrote:

It is Upper Viewcraig Row

"Iain McEvoy is correct in saying this area is the rear of Upper Viewcraig Row. They were indeed happy days.

Here is a photo of the 'Low Road', the area at the front of Upper View. Mr McEvoy is at the front holding the ball.

I was born in 32 Upper Viewcraig Row in 1949 and lived there for eight years."

Bob Hunter, Edinburgh: December 30, 2008

Which Back Green?

The vote is now 3:1 in favour of this picture being of Upper Viewcraig Row, including the photographer describing it as Upper Viewcraig Row, so that looks to be fairly conclusive to me!

Peter Stubbs, January 6, 2009

Recollections

Jim Irvine

Edinburgh

Thank you to Jim Irvine who wrote:

Upper and Lower Viewcraig Rows

"I loved reading the memories of folk who lived in the Dumbiedykes and seeing the photos. I lived at 10 Upper Viewcraig Row from the end of 1952 till 1955 (aged 3-6 years).

I don't remember much about it, but I do have a vivid memory of the back green in the 'Upper View vs. Lower View' discussion. I sometimes played there. I was terrified every time coz it was sooo steep!"

Jim did no go on to say which back green he believed that this photograph showed.

Schools

"I started school at the Catholic school next to St Pat's church and was there for about a year before we moved to Porty. Whilst there, I remember the Figgy Burn well. St John's backed on to the park and the burn was out of bounds - not that that stopped us of course.

Jim Irvine, Edinburgh: January 12, 2009

Recollections

Jan Birnie

Muskoka, Gravenhurst, Ontario, Canada

Thank you to Jan Birnie who wrote:

Family

"My mum, Dorothy Birnie (née Booth.), was born June 18, 1926 at 20 Upper Viewcraig Row (upper balcony) and in fact the photo you have of the back green of Upper Viewcraig Row actually shows a wee bit of mum's bedroom window! She lived there until she was 26 years old, then left to meet her husband, John Thomas Birnie (also from Edinburgh) in Canada to start a new life.

Mum's dad Albert Booth continued to live at 20 Upper Viewcraig Row until the mid-1960s. His wife's name was Barbara Cunningham Booth (née Muir). She passed away from a heart condition on May 10, 1945.

If anybody recognises any of these people, or my mum's brothers, Albert and John, or her sister, Barbara, please let me know."

Reply to Jan Birnie

Thank you to Colin Rankin who wrote:

"I have heard my mother and my Auntie Margaret talk of Dorothy and Barbara Booth several times over the years.

My mother is one of the Barker family who lived in Upper View until the late-1950s. Her her name is Isabella (Rankin). She has:

- an elder brother, James.

- a younger sister, Margaret (Kemp)

- a younger sister, Helen (McGregor)

All are alive, and well for there ages.

My mother's mum & dad were Barbara and James. They, and ,also her uncle Charlie stayed at Upper Viewcraig Row for a while.

Colin Rankin, June 24, 2010

Jan: I hope you find the message above. I tried to send you an email to let you know about it but it has been returned 'undeliverable' to me. Perhaps you have changed your email address since we were last in touch with each other.

Peter Stubbs: June 28, 2010

Nip

"When mum was young they had a wire/smooth mix fox terrier called 'Nip' who all the children knew.

There was a young rotter who drove a Young Brothers bakery van, who took a delight on killing cats on Dumbiedykes Rd (going from top to bottom at full speed.) Poor Nip had been trained by mum's dad to relieve herself in the 'gutter' next to the sidewalk and she became this driver's next four legged victim.

Luckily Young Brothers dismissed this person before my grandad could find him or, as mum says, he would have hung for Nip!

It is Upper Viewcraig Row

"By the way, the picture is of Upper Viewcraig Row."

Jan Birnie, Muskoka, Gravenhurst, Ontario, Canada: January 27, 2009

Contacting Jan

If you'd like to contact Jan, please email me then I'll pass on your message to her.

Thank you - Peter Stubbs: January 28, 2009

Recollections

Jan Birnie

Muskoka, Gravenhurst, Ontario, Canada

Thank you to Jan Birnie who wrote again about Upper Viewcraig Row.

Jan wrote:

Families

"These are the names of some of the other families who lived in Upper Viewcraig Row while my mum and her family lived there:

- James and Barbara Barker and their children, Margaret, Isa, Helen and Jim.

- William and Margaret (Peggy) Robertson and their children, Billy and Elisabeth.

- The Duncans. (They lived in the Robertson's house before the Robertsons.)

- Ruth Taylor.

- The Lawsons and their nephew, George Lawson.

- The Jeffreys and their children, Jenny, Tommy, George, Alec and Moira.

- Annie and Adam Fraser and their children, Annette and James

- Mr. Hay and his wife Margaret and their children, George and Helen

- The Taits. (They lived in the Hay's house before the Hays)

- The Harkins and their children, Katie and [?].
(I can't remember other daughter's name.)

- Patsy Carlinn who lived with her granny.

- Mairn and Willie Anderson and their children, John and David

- Jim and Jean Miller and their children, Jean, David and Marilyn

- The Thomsons and their daughter who was the nanny to Joe Croan, the fish monger

- Kenny and Katie Fowler and their daughter Kathy

- Mrs. Duff and her daughters, Nettie, Bessie and Ina

- Mr. and Mrs. Beatty

- Mr. and Mrs. Henderson and children, James, Charles and Cathy (who went to Australia the same day my mum left for Canada, on the same train to London and Southampton.)

- Granny Hogg, who would throw a pail of water at the kids if they played in the low road

- Miss hood, who lived in the attic. She always asked: "Have ye found Jesus?"

- Fanny Fraser who always answered "I didnae ken he was lost!"

Jan Birnie, Muskoka, Gravenhurst, Ontario, Canada: January 29, 2009

Contacting Jan

If you'd like to contact Jan, please email me then I'll pass on your message to her.

Thank you - Peter Stubbs: January 29, 2009

Recollections

Charlie MacDonald

Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland

On the evidence to date (given in Recollections 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 above) it seems likely to me that the back green in this photo is Upper Viewcraig Row.

However, the debate continues. Charles MacDonald, below, casts a vote in favour of Lower Viewcraig Row:

Back Green - It is Lower Viewcraig Row

"As for the great debate regarding the back green, this picture shown is the back green to Lower Viewcraig Row and the front or side green at the end of Upper Viewcraig Row.

My Aunt Peggy (Scottie Henderson's parents) had a ground floor window which opened out onto the green."

Access to the Back Greens

"Access from Upper View was through a gate from the square in front of Upper Viewcraig Row.

There was another green behind Upper Viewcraig Row which was about the same shape and size, so they could be easily mixed up."

Bonfire on the Back Green

"On bone fire nights, the square in front of Upper Viewcraig Row was used by both Upper and Lower View for the fire and to let off fireworks.

My family was one of the last families to move out of Lower Viewcraig Row before the buildings where demolished, we moved to Moredun."

Charlie MacDonald, Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland: March 27, 2009

Recollections

Tony (Scotty) Henderson

Canada

Thank you to Tony (Scotty) Henderson for adding another message to the EdinPhoto guest book on March 29, 2009.

Tony wrote:

Back Green - It is Lower Viewcraig Row

"I have one last word on the Viewcraig Row backgreen.

I see that my cousin, Charlie, agrees with me! This is the backgreen to Lower Viewcraig Row.

'Backgreen' is particular to Scotland. The building that this backgreen is behind is Lower Viewcraig Row. If you look on the picture Upper Viewcraig Row is on the right of the Backgreen!"

Thanks for your comments Tony. Though I don't expect that what you have written will be the last word on this topic!

- Peter Stubbs: March 29, 2009

Tony (Scotty) Henderson, Canada: Message posted in EdinPhoto guest book, March 27, 2009

Recollections

10.

Dougie Thomson

East Calder, West Lothian, Scotland

Thank you to Dougie Thomson, who has lived in East Calder for the past 29 years, for sending me some of his memories of Dumbiedykes.

Douglas wrote:

Back Green - Upper Viewcraig Row

"When it first started looking at the EdinPhoto web site, I was sure this was the back green of Lower Viewcraig Row. I was born in 54 Lower Viewcraig Row, top balcony, and looked down onto the hill.

But we never referred the backgreen as ours. You had to go all the way round to get to it. I've never been in the back of Upper Viewcraig Row, so I thought, 'How could it be any thing else?'

But if you look at the top right of the photo there is a building on top of the high wall. There was not one on the high wall behind Lower Viewcraig Row. So this must be the backgreen of Upper Viewcraig Row, and both Upper Viewcraig Row and Lower Viewcraig Row must have had similar backgreens."

Bonfire NIght

"On bonfire night, the boys and girls of Viewcraig would raid Prospect Street bonfire store. It was not uncommon to have kids stand guard over their wood."

Demolition

"I left Viewcraig in1962, for Clermiston, but came back some years later and the place was empty. I must have left just before the buildings were knocked down."

Mid-1960s

Yardley's Sweet Shop

"I remember Yardley's sweet shop, where I spent my 9d pocket money on a Friday night. O happy days!"

Thanks

"Keep up the good work. The memories of the people who write in are amazing."

Dougie Thomson, East Calder, West Lothian, Scotland: March 29, 2009

Recollections

11.

Bill Cockburn

Comely Bank, Edinburgh

Thank you to Bill Cockburn who wrote:

Back Green - Upper Viewcraig Row

"I think that I can resolve this issue for you. This picture appears to have been taken from the steps that led up to Waterston Avenue, as witnessed by the railings in the foreground.

This makes it the backgreen that of Upper Viewcraig Row.

The building that appears at the top of the high wall is part of the Sheffield Cutlery Works. This building had boundaries with Upper Viewcraig Row, Waterston Avenue, St Patrick's School and the Scotchie. Therefore the building on the left foreground is the back walls of Upper Viewcraig Row.

I hope that this info helps to settle any dispute between the rival claims."

Bill Cockburn, Comely Bank, Edinburgh: April 28, 2009

Recollections

12.

Rob Barclay

London, England

Thank you to Rob Barclay who wrote:

Back Green - Upper Viewcraig Row

"I can answer the questions on whether the view of the rear garden was that of Lower or Upper Viewcraig Row. It was definitely the rear of Upper Viewcraig Row, as the wall on the right in the photo is that of the rear of the University of Edinburgh garage.

Rob Barclay, London, England: December 23, 2010

Dumbiedykes

Thank you to Rob for also sending some of his recollections of living at Prospect Street Street then Upper Viewcraig Row, Dumbiedykes, around 1960.

Recollections

13.

Mike Sweeney

Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland

Thank you to Mike Sweeney who wrote:

Upper Viewcraig Row

Back Green

"I was born at Upper View Craig Row, Edinburgh in 1949.

I was surprised to find messages on the EdinPhoto web site about the street, and was amused at the debate, albeit 2008-09 re the photograph at the rear of the tenement. Was it Lower or Upper?

Well it was Upper Viewcraig Row."

Our Window

"My bedroom was on the ground floor to the left of the drainpipe in this photo. We used the window, which was very low, to access the back green.

Iain McEvoy and Bob Hunter were right when they said that the wall in the distance took you to waste ground at Lower Viewcraig Row, which led to a similar wall and to the Prospects."

No.6

"Here is a photo of me with my sister, Marjory, sitting outside the rear of No. 6 Upper Viewcraig Row.

There was a basement level below us which you can see at the left of the photo. The building on the right, I’m sure, was the ‘Sheffield Cutlery Factory’.

I left Dumbiedykes in 1957 to live in Clermiston, Edinburgh. I continued to attend St Patrick's school, after which I went to St Anthony’s."

Mike Sweeney, Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland: October 24, 2011

Recollections

14.

David Johnstone

London, England

Thank you to David Johnstone who wrote:

Lower Viewcraig Row

"I was born in 1951 at Lower Viewcraig Row and lived there until, I think, 1955."

The Wall

"When I was about 3 years old, I had an accident on a piece of waste ground very near our home. I fall from a wall and fractured my skull.

We used to sit on this wall and watch the one-man-band as he passed underneath."

Question

"My memory of this wall tells me it was about 10ft high. It may sound trivial but I'd love to know with more certainty. Can anyone help?"

David Johnstone, London, England: November 5, 2011

Reply to David

If you'd like to send a message to David, please email me then I'll pass it on to him.

Thank you:

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: November 5, 2011

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